Author Topic: So what do you guys use to play old games on HDTV's?  (Read 608 times)

September 28, 2020, 11:38:24 PM
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Vypertech

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I been thinking about getting a Reton 5 for a long time but not sure. I've also read about upscalers but not sure which is best? I plan on playing most of my games on an older 1080p TV. Any recommendations?

September 29, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Reply #1

rockabilly1983

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It's best to play old video games on the original console. Clone systems are not the same. Also, not every game will work on a clone system. One example of this is Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse for Nintendo Entertainment System. This game does not work on any clone systems. It only works on the original Nintendo Entertainment System.

You will want to use a CRT TV for retro gaming. Here's why:

Many old game consoles have light guns. Light guns don't work on modern HD, LCD, and/or LED TVs. You must use a CRT TV for playing light gun games. CRT stands for Cathode Ray Tube. Retro video games look bad on an HDTV. Retro video games have a resolution of 240p or 480p. If you don't have a tube TV, you can find them at thrift stores and on Craig's List. eBay also has them but the shipping will kill you depending on what size you want. Sometimes you can find a CRT TV in a pile of junk someone places in front of their home if you're lucky. I rescued four CRT TVs from junk piles in my neighborhood and they all work. My 12 year old nephew likes to play retro video games so I gave him a 14" CRT TV (one of the TVs I found) so he could hook up an NES I bought him. He even hooked up my brother's original PlayStation. My brother is his dad. If you play old video games on an HDTV, you're going to get input lag. I tried playing NES games on my aunt's HDTV in Italy one time and the input lag killed my fun. I can't tell you how many platforms I missed jumping onto in Super Mario Bros. 3. Many times I thought I was in the area to land on the platform but I didn't jump far enough. CRT TVs have no input lag. You're going to have lots of problems if you hook up old original consoles to an HDTV. When you hook up old game consoles to an HDTV, the TV itself has to upscale the signal. That is why you get input lag. I never liked HDTVs. When they first came out in the late 2000s, I was never amazed or wowed by them. I couldn't see any difference. Not even the 4K UHD TVs interest me. Did we really need clearer, sharper picture? I don't play video games for the graphics. I play video games for fun. When I watch movies, I watch them for the story; not for the graphics. If you don't have a CRT TV and want to buy one, do not go large. I recommend a 14", 20", or a 25" TV. CRT TVs that are 27" or more require two people to carry it. They are hard on your back, they're hard to move and if you want to get rid of it, they're almost impossible to get rid of. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Happy gaming!

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September 29, 2020, 07:29:24 AM
Reply #2

Quazimoto

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I don't do a whole lot of retro gaming these days, but when I do I use a RetroPie setup (in a NES looking case) for most of it.  I'd love to have actual games and systems for all the classic consoles that I've loved over the years, but some years back my Brother needed money quick, so I sold all those and now don't have the money to reacquire them (don't really have the space either in all honesty). The RetroPie works well for my needs and I have adapters to use original controllers (though I've heard the 8BitDuo controllers work great with RetroPie).  Kept a Genesis and PS2 that I hook up to my LCD TV via HD RetroVision cables.  Have original games for the PS2 and a flash cart for Genesis ('cause those games had to go too).

I will say that if you have original consoles and games, the HD RetroVision cables are awesome.  You do have to make sure you TV can work with them (there's info about that on their site last time I checked), but I truly do upscale your picture wonderfully without having to spend a ton on mods for systems.  They're like the perfect balance between original and full HD video quality.  At least in my experience.

Not sure how any of the above works with light gun games.  The only LG games I've ever really cared for was Duck Hunt and I just haven't gotten around to actually trying to play that on anything yet.
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September 29, 2020, 08:11:39 AM
Reply #3

Vypertech

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I'm not really looking to go back to the old TV's, in fact I just hauled a 32 inch out of the house (games looked kinda crappy on it as it was really really old). I recently upgraded my 1080p with a 4k TV so I put the 1080 in the game room and am looking to play on that one. So yeah I'm trying to get the best of both worlds, I want something that will clean up the image and make these games look really sharp which is why I keep looking at the Reton 5, but I've read there can be compatibility issues on occasion so it concerns me.

September 29, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
Reply #4

Arseen

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I have Retron 5, used it once to play Link to the Past.
I did good job.
Then I bought 100% (as far as I know) compatible Analogue super NT.
I also haqve Analogue SG for Genesis/Master System.
Trying to Find Analugue NT Mini Noir for NES/Famicom, or I might buy Retro USB AV Nintendo.

Retron 5 now collecting dust, but could be used for N64 (Until Analogue hopefully makes one) and Game Boy line (Until I hopefully get the Analogue Portable).

September 29, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
Reply #5

Bear78

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I been thinking about getting a Reton 5 for a long time but not sure. I've also read about upscalers but not sure which is best? I plan on playing most of my games on an older 1080p TV. Any recommendations?

RetroTINK.  It's the easiest if you want to stick with original hardware.

https://www.retrotink.com/

If you don't care about that, like Arseen said, Analogue makes quality stuff (again not cheap though).


September 29, 2020, 11:46:54 AM
Reply #6

TDIRunner

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The BEST way to play retro consoles on modern HD TVs is with the Analogue products, but that will cost you a lot of money to get everything they currently offer.  Also, if you are slickly talking NES, I would argue that the RetroUSB AES is a good alternative to the Analogue NT or NT Mini and it costs less.  Despite being clone systems, they have near 100% compatibility including the before mentioned Castlevania III. 

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, I would stick with emulation on a Retro Pie.  In my opinion, it's not worth getting the cheaper priced clone systems.  I know a lot of people want to play the original carts, but outside of the high end clone systems like Analogue or RetroUSB, you are sacrificing too much for it to be worth it.  Putting a cart into a Retron 5 isn't really much different than playing a ROM on a Retro Pie. 

Your other options are to look into the HDMI mods that are available for many of the older consoles.  But again, be prepared to front a lot of money, for the kits and even more if you can't install them yourself. 

If you have the budget, go with Analogue.  If you don't, go with Retro Pie.  That's my suggestion.
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September 29, 2020, 11:50:04 AM
Reply #7

rockabilly1983

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I'm not really looking to go back to the old TV's, in fact I just hauled a 32 inch out of the house (games looked kinda crappy on it as it was really really old). I recently upgraded my 1080p with a 4k TV so I put the 1080 in the game room and am looking to play on that one. So yeah I'm trying to get the best of both worlds, I want something that will clean up the image and make these games look really sharp which is why I keep looking at the Reton 5, but I've read there can be compatibility issues on occasion so it concerns me.

You don't want to go back to the old TVs? That's fine. That also means you won't be able to play light gun games anymore. I hope the 32" TV was donated to a thrift store. There are others out there that want it. We need to keep them preserved because those TVs aren't made anymore. The last CRT TVs that were made in the mid to late 2000s have a nice picture. My neighbor across the street was throwing out some stuff one year. I went and took a look at the pile of junk. He was throwing out a 20" Sony Trinitron. I couldn't believe he was throwing out a nice TV. That is the most sought after CRT TV for retro gaming. That is my most favorite CRT. The picture is sharp, bright, and clear. It also has the best stereo sound I have ever heard. It blows HDTVs out of the water. It also has three different A/V inputs: RCA, S-Video, and RGB. You can hook up modern consoles that output RGB such as the PlayStation 3.

September 29, 2020, 12:25:43 PM
Reply #8

Arseen

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That also means you won't be able to play light gun games anymore.
There is hope as there is certain 3rd party Zapper clone (Tomee Zapp Gun) that works with modern TVs as long as the game rom is altered a bit.

More here: http://neslcdmod.com/
So maybe they can find a way to modify other light guns and games to work as well, like SNES Battle Clash 1& 2

September 29, 2020, 10:08:54 PM
Reply #9

Vypertech

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Light gun games aren't really an issues for me, I really don't care for them. The TV had to be taken to recycling as no one else would take it unfortunately, I did try.

September 29, 2020, 11:47:08 PM
Reply #10

rockabilly1983

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I'm sorry no one would take your TV. It pains me thinking about all those beautiful CRT TVs that are getting destroyed. I hope CRTs will make a comeback just like vinyl records did. It's very important that today's children know what TVs looked like when we were kids. This has made me appreciate CRTs even more. In my living room, we have a Samsung 27" CRT TV from 1991 and it still works. I was 7 years old when we bought it. You're lucky to get at least five years out of an HDTV before it starts turning itself off a little later after you turn it on. I'm never getting rid of my CRT TVs. I would only get rid of one if it's completely broken and doesn't work anymore.

October 01, 2020, 03:06:19 PM
Reply #11

breakmanexe

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I can sympathize. I've been working on my setup for the last 5 or 6 years, but the majority of big improvements/additions to the pipeline have come in over the last 2 years or so since I decided to consolidate all of my consoles onto one TV. Unfortunately, that meant my massive Trinitron had to go. But don't worry folks, it has a new home in my garage, where it's hooked up to a PS2 with steel dance pads so I can play DDR to get some exercise.

Anyway, in my opinion, instead of buying an all-in-one clone system, the best way to play your old games on a more modern display is to use the original systems and convert their analog signals to digital via HDMI. While there are a variety of ways to do this, I have some solid advice based on my own experiences trying to get this all sorted myself.

First of all, avoid the cheap conversion boxes you see on Amazon and Aliexpress like the plague, and try to avoid stuff like Pound/Hyperkin HDMI conversion cables. Keep in mind that in most cases, the quality you get is the quality that you pay for.

Instead, I'll echo Bear78's sentiments and highly recommend one of the RetroTINK products, which are both very affordable and are available to fit a variety of use scenarios depending on your personal needs. The 2x Classic is the flagship RetroTINK product, but it's currently on its final run. It accepts composite, S-Video and component (YPbPr) inputs, and outputs a lagless 480p signal via HDMI. It can also passthru a pure 240p or 480i signal without line-doubling, and it also features an optional "smoothing" filter. It does not, however, support any input signal higher than 480i.

The 2x Classic is being discontinued because the 2x Pro and the 2x Pro Multiformat are essentially the same product with more features built in (like optional scanlines and different options for processing composite signals). The 2x Pro Multiformat is noteworthy in that it's the only RetroTINK product that can passthru 480p signals, but the tradeoff is that its picture quality is a little different than its brother's. Lastly, the 2x Mini is a scaled-down version of the 2x Classic at a lower price point which only supports composite and S-Video inputs.

Another popular product is the OSSC, which is a line multiplier like the RetroTINK, but can go much higher than a 2x scale. IIRC, it can go as high as 5x. It also can draw variable-width scanlines to convincingly replicate the "CRT" look if that's what you're into, and also allows you to finely tweak video options to best fit your preferences. A good friend of mine has used both the OSSC and the RetroTINK, and says he prefers the OSSC mainly because of its lag-free multiplication modes higher than 480p. He uses it on a 4k TV with great success.

However, the OSSC is also reported to be a finicky thing. Some displays may support some of the OSSC's multiplied outputs but not others, some displays may not work with it at all, and some displays just don't like certain video sources with off-spec timings. I can't verify how accurate any of this is, however, as I do not own one. Also noteworthy is that the OSSC has no input options available for composite or S-Video (instead offering VGA and SCART inputs), though some people have reported success daisy-chaining the RetroTINK 2x to the OSSC via an HDMI-to-VGA connector, using the 2x's passthru function to provide raw composite and S-Video signals for the OSSC to process.

Of course, it's important to note that regardless of the conversion option you go with, you are ALWAYS going to want to use the highest-quality input signal you can start with. For example, the best quality you can get out of an N64 (without RGB modding it) is S-Video, but an unmodded NES is stuck with composite as the best it can do. If your system supports YPbPr out, use it. If an HD Retrovision cable exists for it, use it. Or just use what you've got! In the end, if you're having fun and you're satisfied with the results, then that's the only thing that matters.

One last thing: if you do decide you want to hook up a bunch of systems at once, I highly recommend planning it all out first. For example, I went the route of drawing up a little schematic to use as a visual guide (as seen below, reflecting my current setup). If you don't have a lot to hook up (or don't want to), you probably won't need to go as in-depth as that. But if you ever plan to, it can certainly help.


October 01, 2020, 10:28:40 PM
Reply #12

Vypertech

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Awesome diagram! I'm thinking I don't need everything hooked up and ready to go at once. I don't mind swapping stuff out like the old days, I tend to stay on 1 system or game for a bit.

October 01, 2020, 11:07:31 PM
Reply #13

breakmanexe

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Right on; minimalist setup is a fine way to go about it. Yeah, then all you would need is to hook up a system to the RetroTINK, hook up the HDMI to the TV, and have at it. Easy breezy beautiful. Out of curiosity, what systems are you planning to play?

October 02, 2020, 07:29:35 AM
Reply #14

Tech13

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One last thing: if you do decide you want to hook up a bunch of systems at once, I highly recommend planning it all out first. For example, I went the route of drawing up a little schematic to use as a visual guide (as seen below, reflecting my current setup). If you don't have a lot to hook up (or don't want to), you probably won't need to go as in-depth as that. But if you ever plan to, it can certainly help.




Looks Familiar.




But only insane IT guys like me with family members that were engineers try this level of planning. LOL