Retail Box Reconstructions -- Food for thought?

[Taketheword]

EDIT: The discussion here resulted in this thread: http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=21556.0.

I am just going to throw out a wild idea. Has anyone ever considered attempting to create a full console library of reconstructed boxes? For example, if someone made reconstructed boxes for the entire N64 library, all future N64 covers could be based off of the "digital boxes". It would no longer be necessary to scan/acquire scans every time someone wants to create a cover. This is of course an ambitious idea, but imagine if everyone had access to a complete set of boxes for a console. From there, they could print a new box, modify it to be a custom box, trim the box to instantly have a retail cover, or trim the box and modify it to create a custom cover.

Long term (I am talking about the next 10 years), could this be a way of fully (digitally) preserving the retail boxes? And could it also avoid the "reinvention of the wheel" (the correction of scans) every time someone wants to create a new cover?

If anyone is genuinely interested in pursuing this long term, I would gladly help.

[CZroe]

I am just going to throw out a wild idea. Has anyone ever considered attempting to create a full console library of reconstructed boxes? For example, if someone made reconstructed boxes for the entire N64 library, all future N64 covers could be based off of the "digital boxes". It would no longer be necessary to scan/acquire scans every time someone wants to create a cover. This is of course an ambitious idea, but imagine if everyone had access to a complete set of boxes for a console. From there, they could print a new box, modify it to be a custom box, trim the box to instantly have a retail cover, or trim the box and modify it to create a custom cover.

Long term (I am talking about the next 10 years), could this be a way of fully (digitally) preserving the retail boxes? And could it also avoid the "reinvention of the wheel" (the correction of scans) every time someone wants to create a new cover?

If anyone is genuinely interested in pursuing this long term, I would gladly help.

It sounds like you're talking about something similar to Nintandbox. The problem with that is it would make it way too easy for counterfeiters to ride off the work and pass the boxes off as legitimate. Luckily, Nintandbox doesn't have many US retail boxes and they do change the UPC.

It's pretty simple to throw a raw scan into a template anyway. No one would confuse a UGC, BitBox, or CGC for an original box, so we don't really have that issue here. I think most people want to see significant differences for boxes to be on board with the idea. Also, many of the N64 covers on this site have stickers and such scanned and printed on them (see NBA Hang Time for example), so I assume that a good raw box scan isn't available publicly.

I am considering starting something like this with a different kind of organization. My boxes would be immediately distinguishable from the real thing while also having the original art (picture of a box on a box).

[PX0]

The problem with that is it would make it way too easy for counterfeiters to ride off the work and pass the boxes off as legitimate.

[...] No one would confuse a UGC, BitBox, or CGC for an original box, so we don't really have that issue here. I think most people want to see significant differences for boxes to be on board with the idea.

I am considering starting something like this with a different kind of organization. My boxes would be immediately distinguishable from the real thing while also having the original art (picture of a box on a box).

I am not sure that this is the reason. 

CGC for example does (illegaly) sell covers from TheCoverProject.
And yet they do get massive support from this community. With a whole subsection in the forums and a big feature on the frontpage. (The NES covers made by shenske are specifically made to fit CGC's NES cases. And CGC does sell these covers.)

NintAndBox does mark each of their boxscans with their logo, also.

[Taketheword]

I am just going to throw out a wild idea. Has anyone ever considered attempting to create a full console library of reconstructed boxes? For example, if someone made reconstructed boxes for the entire N64 library, all future N64 covers could be based off of the "digital boxes". It would no longer be necessary to scan/acquire scans every time someone wants to create a cover. This is of course an ambitious idea, but imagine if everyone had access to a complete set of boxes for a console. From there, they could print a new box, modify it to be a custom box, trim the box to instantly have a retail cover, or trim the box and modify it to create a custom cover.

Long term (I am talking about the next 10 years), could this be a way of fully (digitally) preserving the retail boxes? And could it also avoid the "reinvention of the wheel" (the correction of scans) every time someone wants to create a new cover?

If anyone is genuinely interested in pursuing this long term, I would gladly help.

It sounds like you're talking about something similar to Nintandbox. The problem with that is it would make it way too easy for counterfeiters to ride off the work and pass the boxes off as legitimate. Luckily, Nintandbox doesn't have many US retail boxes and they do change the UPC.

It's pretty simple to throw a raw scan into a template anyway. No one would confuse a UGC, BitBox, or CGC for an original box, so we don't really have that issue here. I think most people want to see significant differences for boxes to be on board with the idea. Also, many of the N64 covers on this site have stickers and such scanned and printed on them (see NBA Hang Time for example), so I assume that a good raw box scan isn't available publicly.

I am considering starting something like this with a different kind of organization. My boxes would be immediately distinguishable from the real thing while also having the original art (picture of a box on a box).

Interesting point. It is a legitimate concern.

The problem with that is it would make it way too easy for counterfeiters to ride off the work and pass the boxes off as legitimate.

[...] No one would confuse a UGC, BitBox, or CGC for an original box, so we don't really have that issue here. I think most people want to see significant differences for boxes to be on board with the idea.

I am considering starting something like this with a different kind of organization. My boxes would be immediately distinguishable from the real thing while also having the original art (picture of a box on a box).

I am not sure that this is the reason. 

CGC for example does (illegaly) sell covers from TheCoverProject.
And yet they do get massive support from this community. With a whole subsection in the forums and a big feature on the frontpage. (The NES covers made by shenske are specifically made to fit CGC's NES cases. And CGC does sell these covers.)

NintAndBox does mark each of their boxscans with their logo, also.

Technically CGC is not illegally selling the covers as they are not copyright protected. If anything, CGC is fudging the law by selling prints which contain Trademarked/Registered logos, brands, slogans, etc. The same argument could be used to argue that the majority of the covers on TCP are illegal as Snowcone mentioned:

3. Aspiring people see the high quality work that the members of TCP have produced and are going to try and make a quick buck off it. This sucks, but since we don't in fact own the artwork there is nothing we can do about it. Would it be awesome to get credit for the work? Absolutely. I support your right as a contributor to request a link back to the site to help support things. What I don't support are threats of legal action. Let's be real here folks. A savvy lawyer could probably argue that what we do is illegal despite the fact that we aren't out to make a profit.

[ShoothimNow]

This is of course an ambitious idea, but imagine if everyone had access to a complete set of boxes for a console. From there, they could print a new box, modify it to be a custom box, trim the box to instantly have a retail cover, or trim the box and modify it to create a custom cover.

*looks at front page regarding NES covers

[Taketheword]

This is of course an ambitious idea, but imagine if everyone had access to a complete set of boxes for a console. From there, they could print a new box, modify it to be a custom box, trim the box to instantly have a retail cover, or trim the box and modify it to create a custom cover.

*looks at front page regarding NES covers

I don't understand 

[e_brugal]

The problem with that is it would make it way too easy for counterfeiters to ride off the work and pass the boxes off as legitimate.

[...] No one would confuse a UGC, BitBox, or CGC for an original box, so we don't really have that issue here. I think most people want to see significant differences for boxes to be on board with the idea.

I am considering starting something like this with a different kind of organization. My boxes would be immediately distinguishable from the real thing while also having the original art (picture of a box on a box).

I am not sure that this is the reason. 

CGC for example does (illegaly) sell covers from TheCoverProject.
And yet they do get massive support from this community. With a whole subsection in the forums and a big feature on the frontpage. (The NES covers made by shenske are specifically made to fit CGC's NES cases. And CGC does sell these covers.)

NintAndBox does mark each of their boxscans with their logo, also.

CGC (shadowfox) is not selling them illegally, shenske made those covers for the CGC and if I'm not wrong both of them talk about that part.

So, he's not selling the illegally

[PX0]

@ Taketheword & @ e_brugal

That you get hung up on the "illegal" part just proofs my point.
Someone says something remotely negative about CGC and instantly people come to their defense.  

My mayor argument was, that people don't stop making covers, dispite other people selling them.
Better yet, those vendors get quite some support from our community.

So I don't think, illegal vendors are the reason why people are not making boxes.

[sheep2001]

The reason people (me at least) aren't hung up on ShaowFox selling covers, is that he is very open about where the covers come from, and he uses the small profits he makes from the printing service to tool new cases for the community.

OK, it comes down to the same thing, selling non owned intellectual property for profit, BUT, and it's a BIG BUT(T), Shenske has made every cover for the CGC NES, and has given permission for them all to be used (and I would assume received some form of payment) - still dubious legality, but meh, that's really not the issue.  Very different to the leachers stripping the forum of covers, and selling without even a thankyou.  That being said - I am fully aware that anything I post on the internet is out there for people to do anything they want with, it would be nice if people at least said thankyou if they are making money from something I put hours of work into.  But please, let's not make this thread into a whine-fest about people selling covers - it happens - we just have to accept it.

As to the original post - I like the idea - I myself make inserts for all my Atari 2600 games to go inside box protector.  They can be retooled into full boxes with virtually no effort.  If anyone wants to see them, they are in my box account, in the 2600 folder.

[Taketheword]

The reason people (me at least) aren't hung up on ShaowFox selling covers, is that he is very open about where the covers come from, and he uses the small profits he makes from the printing service to tool new cases for the community.

OK, it comes down to the same thing, selling non owned intellectual property for profit, BUT, and it's a BIG BUT(T), Shenske has made every cover for the CGC NES, and has given permission for them all to be used (and I would assume received some form of payment) - still dubious legality, but meh, that's really not the issue.  Very different to the leachers stripping the forum of covers, and selling without even a thankyou.  That being said - I am fully aware that anything I post on the internet is out there for people to do anything they want with, it would be nice if people at least said thankyou if they are making money from something I put hours of work into.  But please, let's not make this thread into a whine-fest about people selling covers - it happens - we just have to accept it.

As to the original post - I like the idea - I myself make inserts for all my Atari 2600 games to go inside box protector.  They can be retooled into full boxes with virtually no effort.  If anyone wants to see them, they are in my box account, in the 2600 folder.

Yes, I agree. Let's stay on topic . And thank you for your feedback.

I am still interested to hear what others have to say. Maybe we could get Shenske's opinion .

[shenske]

Yes, I agree. Let's stay on topic . And thank you for your feedback.

I am still interested to hear what others have to say. Maybe we could get Shenske's opinion .

Off Topic: The CGCs are byfar the superior case in comparison to anything else so it was easy to jump behind. CGCs are also sold with or without the coverart, nothing is being forced upon anyone as you can just buy the clamshell and print yourself. Also, Shadowfox (before the others jumped on, which I do appreciate) purchased quite a few NES boxes to to scan. Everyday we are getting closer and closer to having a complete set

Back On Topic: I am for your idea of having cleaned up scans the boxes as a standard for future use. Problem is we are so far along on the entire site that it would be a near impossible undertaking to try and get complete scans with every flap intact. The majority of users in this community likely do not have their original scans and all we have to go from is the covers that we currently have hosted. Plus, many users who helped a lot in the beginning, TheValeman comes immediately to mind, aren't active members any longer so we would have to start from scratch.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't start archiving these type of thing. We would just be starting from the absolute ground up, which would turn off quite a few members. As stated before there is NintAndBox that does exactly what your are desiring. They are based in Europe so they primarily deal in PAL scans but they do also host other regions. If we can convince our members to keep and upload the scans of the "full" box it would be for the greater good and could be submitted to our NintAndBox brethren. In the case of the NES covers I have made ... ~98% were not made with full scans so it would be an uphill battle that I honestly do not wish to undertake (i'm elbow deep in N64 & SNES right now).

If you have fully cleaned and restored "printable" boxes I'll consult with the other Admins on what step we should take. I suggest using NintAndBox's templates so they would be universal and if we choose not to host them they will be usable there.  

[Taketheword]

Yes, I agree. Let's stay on topic . And thank you for your feedback.

I am still interested to hear what others have to say. Maybe we could get Shenske's opinion .

Off Topic: The CGCs are byfar the superior case in comparison to anything else so it was easy to jump behind. CGCs are also sold with or without the coverart, nothing is being forced upon anyone as you can just buy the clamshell and print yourself. Also, Shadowfox (before the others jumped on, which I do appreciate) purchased quite a few NES boxes to to scan. Everyday we are getting closer and closer to having a complete set

Back On Topic: I am for your idea of having cleaned up scans the boxes as a standard for future use. Problem is we are so far along on the entire site that it would be a near impossible undertaking to try and get complete scans with every flap intact. The majority of users in this community likely do not have their original scans and all we have to go from is the covers that we currently have hosted. Plus, many users who helped a lot in the beginning, TheValeman comes immediately to mind, aren't active members any longer so we would have to start from scratch.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't start archiving these type of thing. We would just be starting from the absolute ground up, which would turn off quite a few members. As stated before there is NintAndBox that does exactly what your are desiring. They are based in Europe so they primarily deal in PAL scans but they do also host other regions. If we can convince our members to keep and upload the scans of the "full" box it would be for the greater good and could be submitted to our NintAndBox brethren. In the case of the NES covers I have made ... ~98% were not made with full scans so it would be an uphill battle that I honestly do not wish to undertake (i'm elbow deep in N64 & SNES right now).

If you have fully cleaned and restored "printable" boxes I'll consult with the other Admins on what step we should take. I suggest using NintAndBox's templates so they would be universal and if we choose not to host them they will be usable there.  

I am in full agreement with you on the Shadowfox cases. I feel like Shadowfox is making cases which finally do these wonderful games justice. By the way, I dropped a couple more box scans on your thread .

Thanks for the input on the retail box idea. You're right, we would be starting from the ground up. But if we start archiving box scans (perhaps myself and others could start collecting them), we will ultimately benefit. Whether or not the raw scans are ever turned into printable boxes, it would be extremely beneficial to have the scans for a number of uses.

Perhaps the shorter-term goal would be to start archiving scans. Would anyone be against a thread dedicated to one console's box scans? The scans would be collecting from everywhere they can be found or from whoever can contribute, but credit would be given whenever possible.

[Bear78]

Just my two cents, maybe instead of trying to provide complete, cleaned up reconstructions, the site could start offering a raw scan upload area again.  I know this used to be something the site did and the link is still on the left hand side but instead of throwing all raws in a big folder like it used to be, have them linked under the name of game in the normal cover hosting area. So, for example, you might go search for a GBA cover and you'd see the DS retail, 3DS retail, and a raw option under the game.  Raws could be approved by the cover admins just like completed covers are.  Make some guidelines for the raws (600 DPI, Descreen, etc.) and add the best submitted ones to the "database".  Just a thought.

Inadvertently, this might give some members a feeling that they are actually contributing more.  I know technically anyone that links a raw or finished cover is helping out but to see something you have provided actually uploaded to the site and show up in the new cover feed adds that special feeling of "I've actually contributed to make the site better". This might actually drive more involvement from the members in both raw scans and discussion.   This is all speculative or course.

[e_brugal]

It's a good idea what you propose,  everyone knows I like retail covers and for me the n64 is going to be a problem, because the spine used on almost all covers are from the other side (the purple one), and I prefer the original side (the green one). Also n64 boxes have the spine without the red line on the bottom and all covers have that red part that comes from the front to the back (the retail one just have the "N" logo with the green background and a picture of the game).

It will.be goo to.have that sort of thread.

I have try to get a complete set of scan for the game gear and host them in one thread,  in two years there's 1/4 of the total of the US version. Some people have made support  and we have some scans for when the time comes, always giving credit to the contributer. I hope to get them all soon (us, Jp, Eu)

Here's the link
http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=17197.msg150970#msg150970

[Taketheword]

Just my two cents, maybe instead of trying to provide complete, cleaned up reconstructions, the site could start offering a raw scan upload area again.  I know this used to be something the site did and the link is still on the left hand side but instead of throwing all raws in a big folder like it used to be, have them linked under the name of game in the normal cover hosting area. So, for example, you might go search for a GBA cover and you'd see the DS retail, 3DS retail, and a raw option under the game.  Raws could be approved by the cover admins just like completed covers are.  Make some guidelines for the raws (600 DPI, Descreen, etc.) and add the best submitted ones to the "database".  Just a thought.

Inadvertently, this might give some members a feeling that they are actually contributing more.  I know technically anyone that links a raw or finished cover is helping out but to see something you have provided actually uploaded to the site and show up in the new cover feed adds that special feeling of "I've actually contributed to make the site better". This might actually drive more involvement from the members in both raw scans and discussion.   This is all speculative or course.

I love this idea. For now, I will probably start creating raw scan consolidation threads like e_brugal is doing with GG. It will still be a bit of time before I can really dive in though. I am currently networking my whole house.