The Tim Atwood Story

[PinBiohazard]

I for one want to shout out Tim for doing good in the community, I want to know other peoples opinion on this story, for those who don't know here is the story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWN5p7zJ_VU
voice your views below

[TDIRunner]

By simple coincidence, I just happened to be on NintendoAge when Minusworlds posted the picture of the Stadium Events case.  I saw it within 5 minutes of it getting posted, and I've been following the story ever since (as a lurker).  I've made a point to NOT take a stance one way or the other and I'm happy that I made that choice because even though I have my opinions on the subject, I feel that anyone who took a strong stance on one side or the other looks at least a little foolish now.  Even as of this morning, the drama is still ongoing, but at this point it's pretty much run its course. 

[PinBiohazard]

By simple coincidence, I just happened to be on NintendoAge when Minusworlds posted the picture of the Stadium Events case.  I saw it within 5 minutes of it getting posted, and I've been following the story ever since (as a lurker).  I've made a point to NOT take a stance one way or the other and I'm happy that I made that choice because even though I have my opinions on the subject, I feel that anyone who took a strong stance on one side or the other looks at least a little foolish now.  Even as of this morning, the drama is still ongoing, but at this point it's pretty much run its course. 

Very True

[RealPlumpBox]

I have always hated Nintendoage. The whole site is full of cocky arrogant dicks. If you don't have a big collection of all heavy hitters you will just about get shit on or ignored. Place is just terrible.

[wiggy]

It's bizarre to me that something like this is enough to get a number of people all worked up beyond the point of being able to produce a rational thought.

People on NA often claim to know EVERYTHING about production totals, quantities in existence, number of sealed instances of "X" product that still remain, and so on. All without ANY empirical data, and often without even annecdotal evidence. I've seen tons of assertions based on who knows what (nothing, as best I can tell).  I can completely understand why someone would want to poke a giant hole in their tiny bubble.

Then, of course, nobody wants to be wrong about their assertions, even when this sort of evidence pops up, and so the pointless Internet debate war begins.

Lots of butthurt, lots of jealously.

[PinBiohazard]

It's bizarre to me that something like this is enough to get a number of people all worked up beyond the point of being able to produce a rational thought.

People on NA often claim to know EVERYTHING about production totals, quantities in existence, number of sealed instances of "X" product that still remain, and so on. All without ANY empirical data, and often without even annecdotal evidence. I've seen tons of assertions based on who knows what (nothing, as best I can tell).  I can completely understand why someone would want to poke a giant hole in their tiny bubble.

Then, of course, nobody wants to be wrong about their assertions, even when this sort of evidence pops up, and so the pointless Internet debate war begins.

Lots of butthurt, lots of jealously.

[Superchop]

I haven't been following the story completely, just bits here and there but watching that podcast brings up a good point.  Those people who "fear" Tim don't care for him at all they only fear the impact that his collection would have on the market.  They fear that their precious carts would plummet in value because up until now they had this holy grail of a cart and used it as a way to look down on everyone else. 

I mean it's no shock that most "collectors" only collect cause of the value in the game, and this whole thing may be what I hope is the start of the retro gaming crash.  Prices and value of these games have gone up way too much to even be considered a hobby. 

[Ozzy_98]

I for one want to shout out Tim for doing good in the community, I want to know other peoples opinion on this story, for those who don't know here is the story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWN5p7zJ_VU
voice your views below

And almost nothing Pat mentioned was correct.  Heck, it was a temp ban even, and that was mostly because of the threads Tim made later, like the strange Donald Trump one which he edited before I saw it.

The bulk of it had nothing to do with him having a case of SEs, that was kind of a side fact.

[redsox2012]

I haven't been following the story completely, just bits here and there but watching that podcast brings up a good point.  Those people who "fear" Tim don't care for him at all they only fear the impact that his collection would have on the market.  They fear that their precious carts would plummet in value because up until now they had this holy grail of a cart and used it as a way to look down on everyone else. 

I mean it's no shock that most "collectors" only collect cause of the value in the game, and this whole thing may be what I hope is the start of the retro gaming crash.  Prices and value of these games have gone up way too much to even be considered a hobby. 

Collecting ANYTHING comes with the risk that a new supply may be found, which will reduce values across the board.  Just a few months ago someone found 7 Ty Cobb baseball cards hidden in an old house.  Up until then, there were only 15 known to exist.  Now there's 22. 

From what I've read, Tim Atwood is a collector who, until now, kept to himself about his collection.  He never publicized the treasures he had.  Who knows how many more people like him are out there.  What if a private collector has boxes of sealed "MUSHA"'s or "Hagane"'s sitting in their home?  You just never know.

There's NOTHING wrong with collecting for value.  However, it comes with risks, and people have to realize they can't get upset because another collector may have quantities of certain items.

[RealPlumpBox]

All I know is I can not wait for the "Retro bubble" to burst and it goes back to what it was 15 about or so years ago.  Cheap and nobody cared!  Then I can buy up all the shit like I used to.

[segamer]

All I know is I can not wait for the "Retro bubble" to burst and it goes back to what it was 15 about or so years ago.  Cheap and nobody cared!  Then I can buy up all the shit like I used to.

The retro bubble will never burst. It boils down to supply and demand. Back in the day, the number of gamers & collectors were a fraction of what it is today. Games were produced in lower quantities. There simply aren't enough retro games to meet collectors demands. As the population grows, the number of collectors grows with time.

[Megatron]

All I know is I can not wait for the "Retro bubble" to burst and it goes back to what it was 15 about or so years ago.  Cheap and nobody cared!  Then I can buy up all the shit like I used to.

The retro bubble will never burst. It boils down to supply and demand. Back in the day, the number of gamers & collectors were a fraction of what it is today. Games were produced in lower quantities. There simply aren't enough retro games to meet collectors demands. As the population grows, the number of collectors grows with time.

True, but it isn't necessarily exponential in terms of growth.  Like anything that's popular, there are a fair number of "fad" collectors who are in it because it is the IT thing at the moment.  See Beanie Babies, Pokemon Cards, and Amiibo for examples of this.  They have their moment in the sun, and eventually fizzle out those who aren't truly invested.  Prices/collecting eventually stabilize at a price range, for at least a little while.
It's kind of like the gym in January and February.  It's packed because of all the "New Years Resolution" people.  By March, it's back to the regulars.

Prices will likely NEVER go back to what they were 2010 and before, but these ever growing prices of retro games will eventually stabilize, and possibly dip back down  to 2012ish prices.  One can hope.  But no, you're not going to see Little Sampson going for less than $100 like it did a decade ago.

[segamer]

All I know is I can not wait for the "Retro bubble" to burst and it goes back to what it was 15 about or so years ago.  Cheap and nobody cared!  Then I can buy up all the shit like I used to.

The retro bubble will never burst. It boils down to supply and demand. Back in the day, the number of gamers & collectors were a fraction of what it is today. Games were produced in lower quantities. There simply aren't enough retro games to meet collectors demands. As the population grows, the number of collectors grows with time.

True, but it isn't necessarily exponential in terms of growth.  Like anything that's popular, there are a fair number of "fad" collectors who are in it because it is the IT thing at the moment.  See Beanie Babies, Pokemon Cards, and Amiibo for examples of this.  They have their moment in the sun, and eventually fizzle out those who aren't truly invested.  Prices/collecting eventually stabilize at a price range, for at least a little while.
It's kind of like the gym in January and February.  It's packed because of all the "New Years Resolution" people.  By March, it's back to the regulars.

Prices will likely NEVER go back to what they were 2010 and before, but these ever growing prices of retro games will eventually stabilize, and possibly dip back down  to 2012ish prices.  One can hope.  But no, you're not going to see Little Sampson going for less than $100 like it did a decade ago.

Retro collecting isn't comparable to Beanie Babies, Pokemon cards or Amiibos. Those items have been produced in the millions. The average third party games from the 80's and 90's had average runs of 50k to 100k units.  Although there are games that sold a million or millions, we currently have 300 million gamers. Even if only 5% of those are collectors/retro gamers/die hard gamers; that won't satisfy demand. The truth is that market is already dried up. Gone are the days of finding non-sports games at the flea market. The market will never, ever be the same.

[Megatron]

90% of retro games are not rare.  You can find plenty of copies of Contra, Earthbound, Mega Man 5 and Gargoyle's Quest 2.  
Yes, there are some legitimately rare titles, however those were (and will likely always be) pricier than the others.  Caltron 6 has always been hard to find.  And it will always command a higher price than most other things.  But it will not keep it's peak value, whenever that may be.  

But for the majority of games, there are PLENTY of copies available.  If you remove all of the "fad" collectors out there, there have been plenty of copies for most games for anyone who wants one.  Now, in the future they will become harder to get, but that's true of anything that has been discontinued.  If you want Conta, you can find COntra.  Maybe not in your local store, but definitely online.  And like everything else, once peak interest passes on something, prices drop.  Again, never back to what they were, but I sincerely doubt people will be paying $40 for Alfred Chicken once the allure of collecting has worn.  So the price will begin to drop.  As to WHEN that will happen, who knows?   But it always happens.  Retro gaming (not to be confused with modern gaming) is a fad like any other.  Nothing stays popular forever.  

And the market is definitely not what it was, but it is not devoid of awesome finds.  Two weeks ago I found a stack of Dreamcast games which included the MvC titles and Power Stone at a goodwill.  It's half location and half luck.  If you're in a small town or a huge metropolitan city, chances are less than a suburban area simply due to the amount of competition.  Just because retro games will never be what they WERE doesn't mean they will stay what they ARE. 

[larryinc64]

While i think it is a little bloated, I don't quite see retro gaming as just another fad, I see it more as this analogy: The Super Marios, Earthbounds, Sonics, Zeldas Ect. are like your Beatles (Especially), Led Zeppelins, Pink Floyds, Aerosmiths, Ect. They are good things that will keep finding new audiences.

Now, many younger generations may just get it on virtual console/ Buy it on iTunes or emulate it/pirate it, but there will always be a fragment that will want the original carts/ vinyl. Speaking as a person who grew up with a PS2, I just see more of my friends as they grow older (and get more money) want collect for older systems, or at least get a N64 and Mario Kart 64.

I think there is a bloat, as many people are trying to profit off of the hobby, and soon prices will hit a ceiling (As SMW can only charge so much) but all I see are 1 generation of video games having to be spread out between more and more younger generations wanting them.