Author Topic: Gun control and such.  (Read 1762 times)

February 10, 2016, 02:15:58 AM
Reply #45

FritzWhite

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I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Without it the others just become privileges. The biggest reason to stand behind the 2nd Amendment is for protection against tyranny be it from our own government or an invading government. That is why I own guns and why I support that other law abiding citizens do. Personal defense is simply a side benefit. But in reality I've only ever used my guns for recreation. Thanks goodness. I hope that's all I ever use them for.
I agree with the principle, but there is no band of citizens capable of stopping the US government if they decided to take your guns by force. They'll win that battle every time. It happened in New Orleans a few years back and it could happen again.

February 10, 2016, 10:48:47 AM
Reply #46

Polygon

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I agree with the principle, but there is no band of citizens capable of stopping the US government if they decided to take your guns by force. They'll win that battle every time. It happened in New Orleans a few years back and it could happen again.

I can assure you that if the government were to try and confiscate guns on a large scale they wouldn't have the complete local law enforcement and military behind them. So, yes. I do feel that if all gun owners stood up we could overthrow the government if they decided to do something drastic. Sure, it would be a very bloody civil war and I'm sure it would drag on for quite some time but I don't think it's out of line. I pray that never becomes a reality.

February 10, 2016, 10:51:03 AM
Reply #47

segamer

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I agree with the principle, but there is no band of citizens capable of stopping the US government if they decided to take your guns by force. They'll win that battle every time. It happened in New Orleans a few years back and it could happen again.

I can assure you that if the government were to try and confiscate guns on a large scale they wouldn't have the complete local law enforcement and military behind them. So, yes. I do feel that if all gun owners stood up we could overthrow the government if they decided to do something drastic. Sure, it would be a very bloody civil war and I'm sure it would drag on for quite some time but I don't think it's out of line. I pray that never becomes a reality.

Ummm... That wouldn't happen. The United States has a $680 billion budget for it's miliary. LOL!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:57:12 AM by segamer »

February 10, 2016, 11:17:27 AM
Reply #48

segamer

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2nd Amendment of the United States "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second Amendment was intend to give, the Militia's of the United States, the power to bare arms as they were comprised of the average citizen. The second amendment doesn't protect guns; it protects arms. Arms can be a knife, a club, a rock, a sword, a gun, a rocket launcher, a tank, a nuke, etc...

If I we had an amendment that said, "Being 21, the age of adulthood, it is the right of the people to drink alcohol." Most people would say, you have the right to drink at 21. With the second amendment, most gun enthusiasts ignore the first part of the amendment and they ignore the fact that it doesn't say guns.

At the time, when the second amendment was crafted, the United States didn't have its own military. A "tyrannical government" was considered those outside the United States as we were fighting the British who were trying to control us. Seeing how, we the people of the United States, are the Government (as we use elected officials to represent our views); the ideology wasn't intended to attack ourselves.  I won't comment further more on this topic. I support gun ownership. However, there are extremists an both ends.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:08:36 PM by segamer »

February 10, 2016, 02:24:22 PM
Reply #49

tiktektak

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Wouldn't it also be problematic that in the case of a civil war the authority still would have the much bigger guns. ;D
2 + 3 = 23

February 10, 2016, 02:50:52 PM
Reply #50

Arseen

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In the end the result is up to the military as no amount of civilians with guns would stand a chance against it.

Somehow I think that if the government/president would go berserk, leaders of the military would have sense to object the attack and stand down against civilians.

On the other hand if some civilian/militia/semi-military group would try coop, the military would lay waste of them.

February 10, 2016, 03:07:08 PM
Reply #51

Polygon

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In the end the result is up to the military as no amount of civilians with guns would stand a chance against it.

Somehow I think that if the government/president would go berserk, leaders of the military would have sense to object the attack and stand down against civilians.

On the other hand if some civilian/militia/semi-military group would try coop, the military would lay waste of them.


And this was my point. If the Government tried to do something drastic like that they wouldn't have the support of the military. At least not the majority of it. Including local law enforcement.

February 10, 2016, 04:15:31 PM
Reply #52

Arseen

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In the end the result is up to the military as no amount of civilians with guns would stand a chance against it.

Somehow I think that if the government/president would go berserk, leaders of the military would have sense to object the attack and stand down against civilians.

On the other hand if some civilian/militia/semi-military group would try coop, the military would lay waste of them.


And this was my point. If the Government tried to do something drastic like that they wouldn't have the support of the military. At least not the majority of it. Including local law enforcement.

I said that if goverment would go berserk as in doing something that would hurt people the military would probably take stance against it, but taking guns away from people... the fuck military would object taking guns away from unknown possibly idiotic entities, especially assault weapons.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 04:18:08 PM by Arseen »

February 10, 2016, 04:55:05 PM
Reply #53

Polygon

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I said that if goverment would go berserk as in doing something that would hurt people the military would probably take stance against it, but taking guns away from people... the fuck military would object taking guns away from unknown possibly idiotic entities, especially assault weapons.

I'm not going to get into the absurdity of "assault" weapons. Anything you assault someone with is an assault weapon. And the guns being defined as assault weapons are rarely used in shootings. Most shootings involve shotguns and pistols. Also, they are merely semi-automatic rifles. There's nothing special about them besides the way they look.

As for the confiscating guns, that is a violation of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. All government officials including the military and law enforcement have sworn to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I believe that the vast majority would not go against that oath.

February 10, 2016, 05:08:11 PM
Reply #54

Arseen

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As for the confiscating guns, that is a violation of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. All government officials including the military and law enforcement have sworn to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I believe that the vast majority would not go against that oath.

If gun owning would be made illegal they would, as it would not be against the oath anymore.

February 10, 2016, 05:32:23 PM
Reply #55

Polygon

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If gun owning would be made illegal they would, as it would not be against the oath anymore.

It's not that simple.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 11:54:11 PM by Polygon »

February 10, 2016, 11:52:23 PM
Reply #56

palmer6strings

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Arseen, I really don't think you understand. The Constitution is pretty much above law. It is LAW. It was put in place so laws could not overpower it. It's like saying you don't have freedom of speech anymore. It's not as simple as taking a vote to repeal the constitution...
What are you looking at? You think baby's don't like video games? THEN YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BABIES!!

February 11, 2016, 03:57:11 AM
Reply #57

Arseen

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Arseen, I really don't think you understand. The Constitution is pretty much above law. It is LAW. It was put in place so laws could not overpower it. It's like saying you don't have freedom of speech anymore. It's not as simple as taking a vote to repeal the constitution...

I know constitution is above normal law, but constitution can be amended (or what's the English word).
Not easy but it can happen right?

February 11, 2016, 05:00:37 AM
Reply #58

Megatron

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I don't give two shits about this topic.

But this made me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

February 11, 2016, 07:50:20 PM
Reply #59

SkapeGote

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Hey,

I lived in Toronto up until 2 years ago. I never locked my door. I had two break ins. Both time is was someone looking to steal something to support a drug habit. Both times they were caught and both times they weren't there to harm me. I currently work in mental health. I think guns as home defence is a bit comical. regardless, in Canada, we have more guns per capita than the USA. The difference seems to be empathy and education.

I am not going to shoot a man for stealing my laptop. I am not killing a man over stuff. The one guy came in, stole my laptop and ran. Cops caught him. He wasn't dangerous, he was desperate. If you want to fix the gun violence issue in the States, here is my opinion. Tell the NRA to piss off and die. Create an organization that educates the public. Not gun education, but how to be kind and sympathetic. Teach people to not respond to every offence with violence and anger. In my case, I don't hate the guy who stole my laptop, and I don't feel sorry for him. He is the product of something else, probably out of his control. Bad parents maybe. I have one client i work with whose mother fed him opiates as a child to calm him down. He has been an addict since he was 8. I shouldn't loath him, and I don't. I get why he steals.

Teaching compassion is far more important than puffing up your chest and claiming "I need to protect my family". If you really wanted to protect them you would have a group lobby for clean needle exchanges, methadone clinics and the like. Proper support for people with mental health issues, housing first initiatives. We do a lot of things like that in Canada, and everyone of them has been met with a significant statistical drop in crime. Proven drop. So instead of funnelling money into worthless self absorbed things like the NRA, protect your gun rights by making sure the most vulnerable populations won't feel the need to pick one up to score their next hit. As for gangs, most of there money comes from the drug trade. Eliminate the drug trade the gangs will have a hard time thriving.

Now can all this be eliminated completely, probably not. But you cant argue with a 80 or 90 percent decrease in violent crimes in certain areas, and those are actual numbers I have seen. I want to see you guys have guns, but only for sport. I want you and your buddies to head to a range for a day and crack off a few rounds, come home, have a few beer, kiss your kids good night and lock those guns away feeling safe. And feeling safe not because you own a gun, but because you know there is no need to others to use one against you.

Skape