Author Topic: Gun control and such.  (Read 1729 times)

November 27, 2015, 07:33:28 AM
Read 1729 times

Arseen

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This topic is created so people can talk about gun control, with leaps to related stuff.

DO IT ONLY HERE!!!!!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 05:38:48 PM by Arseen »

February 03, 2016, 01:09:41 AM
Reply #1

RealPlumpBox

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I live in a shady area in an apartment.  I only have a dog and 4 guns for my protection.  But if they broke in while I was away?  Well it would suck but I would just re-buy my current gen stuff and call it quits with collecting.
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February 03, 2016, 07:34:26 AM
Reply #2

wiggy

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Get renters insurance. Depending on what state you live in, you may go to prison for shooting an home invader.

February 03, 2016, 10:11:40 AM
Reply #3

palmer6strings

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Home Invader, not to be confused with Space Invaders.  :P
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February 03, 2016, 12:36:51 PM
Reply #4

FritzWhite

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Get renters insurance. Depending on what state you live in, you may go to prison for shooting an home invader.
Better than your family being dead.

February 03, 2016, 03:29:20 PM
Reply #5

RealPlumpBox

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Get renters insurance. Depending on what state you live in, you may go to prison for shooting an home invader.
I live in Seattle WA.  It is one of the most lax gun law states in the US.  I have ever right to protect myself from a home invasion.   Also I do in fact have renters insurance.   It was mandatory.
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February 06, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
Reply #6

wiggy

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Get renters insurance. Depending on what state you live in, you may go to prison for shooting an home invader.
Better than your family being dead.

LOL!  You've a better chance of being struck by lighting than having a random home invader kill you and all of your family, and having a gun in the house actually worsens your odds.

 https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

February 07, 2016, 01:18:12 AM
Reply #7

FritzWhite

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Get renters insurance. Depending on what state you live in, you may go to prison for shooting an home invader.
Better than your family being dead.

LOL!  You've a better chance of being struck by lighting than having a random home invader kill you and all of your family, and having a gun in the house actually worsens your odds.

 https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

You really feel that safe? A little girl was murdered in the condo next to me and her death ABSOLUTELY COULD have been prevented through proper use of a firearm.

Sure, it's not the end all be all for self defense, but it is a critical component if you want to be prepared. I wonder what kind of bubble you live in where you feel so protected from anything dangerous ever happening to you.

By the way, having a gun in your house only worsens your odds if you're untrained. People who drive in cars are significantly more likely to be in car accidents. I think it would be unwise to not have a vehicle in the name of safety and I also think it's unwise to not be prepared to defend myself at all times. HOWEVER, I'm not judging someone else if they're afraid of them.

The article you linked contained a number of quotes from David Hemenway. I'd like to add one more in here to give a better understanding of his mindset.

Hemenway appeared at a forum hosted by the Robert Wood Johnson foundation and made the following statement in April 2013, "Instead of it being the mark of a real man that you can shoot somebody at 50 feet and kill them with a gun, the mark of a real man is that you would never do anything like that. . . . The gun is a great equalizer because it makes wimps as dangerous as people who really have skill and bravery and so I’d like to have this notion that anyone using a gun is a wuss. They aren’t anybody to be looked up to. They’re somebody to look down at because they couldn’t defend themselves or couldn’t protect others without using a gun."
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 02:04:01 AM by FritzWhite »

February 07, 2016, 07:14:18 PM
Reply #8

KalessinDB

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#popcorn

HOW long can we go before the pro gun guy and the anti gun guy realize they're speaking completely different languages and will literally NEVER understand each other's viewpoint no matter what?

I've played this game with lots of pro gun guys at work (I'm quite anto gun). We can respect each other, but we absolutely cannot understand each other. It's not worth the breath/keystrokes.
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February 07, 2016, 11:33:24 PM
Reply #9

TDIRunner

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#popcorn

HOW long can we go before the pro gun guy and the anti gun guy realize they're speaking completely different languages and will literally NEVER understand each other's viewpoint no matter what?

I've played this game with lots of pro gun guys at work (I'm quite anto gun). We can respect each other, but we absolutely cannot understand each other. It's not worth the breath/keystrokes.

I'm very pro gun, but I'm avoiding this topic for the same reasons.  It's not that I don't want to make the argument.  It's that I don't want to make the argument HERE.  I avoid the political debates here for the same reason (not that they come up that often in the first place).  I don't come here for debates, unless it's a debate about video games.   :P
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 09:52:43 AM by TDIRunner »
Maybe, just once, someone will call me "sir" without adding, "you're making a scene."

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February 08, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
Reply #10

wiggy

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#popcorn

HOW long can we go before the pro gun guy and the anti gun guy realize they're speaking completely different languages and will literally NEVER understand each other's viewpoint no matter what?

I've played this game with lots of pro gun guys at work (I'm quite anto gun). We can respect each other, but we absolutely cannot understand each other. It's not worth the breath/keystrokes.

The thing is, I do indeed understand their viewpoint. The problem is that virtually ALL of the data regarding home defense points to "having a gun in the house is more of a liability than a security".

The people who support owning handguns and the right to shoot an intruder never seem to produce any evidence to the contrary, other than the anecdotal "if the owner had a gun..." type of thing.  Speculation doesn't prove anything. Also denouncing the empirical data, such as "so and so also said blah blah blah, which totally discredits his/her research/data".

TDI, you're assuming I/anyone else is "afraid of guns". I never said I was afraid, I only pointed to data that supports my assertion that owning a gun is more of a liability than a security measure.  The data shows that having a gun in the house is more times than not, a liability, trained or not.  This is what I was talking about above. Where's the data that shows "trained" gun owners are safer at home with their guns?  That's an assumption, and a rather large one at that.

Not sure how the mindset is relevant?  You obviously don't agree with it, but it does nothing to disprove actual data.  of course someone who is against the current gun laws is going to have a mindset that is people shouldn't own hand guns or assault rifles or sub machine guns and so on.  The fact that he has expressed his opinion doesn't invalidate the data.

I don't have any problems with people feeling that they need some sort of firearm to feel secure.  I'm just looking at data and, regardless of how any of us feel, it speaks truth.  If someone wants to point to research which says firearms in homes have proven to protect the people who live there, then I'll read it.  I'm just not seeing it, and it's tiresome hearing the same emotional defenses and anecdotal evidence from gun owners.  I could supply a glut of personal, anecdotal evidence showing that gun ownership is not necessarily a good idea for the average citizen, but I won't, because it's not all that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

More of my friends are gun owners than aren't, as an FYI. Just because I have a different opinion, doesn't mean I write someone off. So don't think that I'm going to dislike or yeah talk you for having a different opinion in this matter. Ask Palmer, we get along just fine :)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 04:12:45 PM by wiggy »

February 08, 2016, 04:20:50 PM
Reply #11

TDIRunner

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TDI, you're assuming I/anyone else is "afraid of guns".

 ???


***EDIT***  I think you just need to double check whose comments you are responding to.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 04:22:51 PM by TDIRunner »
Maybe, just once, someone will call me "sir" without adding, "you're making a scene."

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February 08, 2016, 05:08:22 PM
Reply #12

FritzWhite

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#popcorn

HOW long can we go before the pro gun guy and the anti gun guy realize they're speaking completely different languages and will literally NEVER understand each other's viewpoint no matter what?

I've played this game with lots of pro gun guys at work (I'm quite anto gun). We can respect each other, but we absolutely cannot understand each other. It's not worth the breath/keystrokes.

The thing is, I do indeed understand their viewpoint. The problem is that virtually ALL of the data regarding home defense points to "having a gun in the house is more of a liability than a security".

The people who support owning handguns and the right to shoot an intruder never seem to produce any evidence to the contrary, other than the anecdotal "if the owner had a gun..." type of thing.  Speculation doesn't prove anything. Also denouncing the empirical data, such as "so and so also said blah blah blah, which totally discredits his/her research/data".

TDI, you're assuming I/anyone else is "afraid of guns". I never said I was afraid, I only pointed to data that supports my assertion that owning a gun is more of a liability than a security measure.  The data shows that having a gun in the house is more times than not, a liability, trained or not.  This is what I was talking about above. Where's the data that shows "trained" gun owners are safer at home with their guns?  That's an assumption, and a rather large one at that.

Not sure how the mindset is relevant?  You obviously don't agree with it, but it does nothing to disprove actual data.  of course someone who is against the current gun laws is going to have a mindset that is people shouldn't own hand guns or assault rifles or sub machine guns and so on.  The fact that he has expressed his opinion doesn't invalidate the data.

I don't have any problems with people feeling that they need some sort of firearm to feel secure.  I'm just looking at data and, regardless of how any of us feel, it speaks truth.  If someone wants to point to research which says firearms in homes have proven to protect the people who live there, then I'll read it.  I'm just not seeing it, and it's tiresome hearing the same emotional defenses and anecdotal evidence from gun owners.  I could supply a glut of personal, anecdotal evidence showing that gun ownership is not necessarily a good idea for the average citizen, but I won't, because it's not all that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

More of my friends are gun owners than aren't, as an FYI. Just because I have a different opinion, doesn't mean I write someone off. So don't think that I'm going to dislike or yeah talk you for having a different opinion in this matter. Ask Palmer, we get along just fine :)

I'm sorry if I was a bit brash in my response earlier; it's a subject that's important to me because it enables me to defend my family. I think you meant to respond to me and might have been confused on who posted what. I made the comment earlier about people's irrational fear of guns.

As for the data, it's hard to take it seriously with a statement like, "If you have a gun, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-gun-owning neighbors and their families to die in a gun-related accident, suicide or homicide." This is like saying that stepping outside increases your odds of skin cancer or people who drive are more likely to in accidents, but there's a KEY difference. I have more control over an accident with a firearm than I do with the previous two examples.

It is physically impossible for my firearm to go off unless the trigger is pulled. Biased statistics are meaningless in the face of this one FACT. I am in control of the ultimate safety and it's the one between my ears. I, and only I, decide when it's used because it CANNOT fire unless I use it, and I know how to use it.

I don't need to list examples of firearms saving lives because there are too many. It's a tool just like a car and used properly it can take you out of a bad situation unharmed.

PS. I don't harbor any resentment or begrudge someone if they disagree. I was kind of rude earlier and apologize. I'm ok with discussion.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 05:28:30 PM by FritzWhite »

February 08, 2016, 07:07:07 PM
Reply #13

wiggy

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TDI, you're assuming I/anyone else is "afraid of guns".

 ???


***EDIT***  I think you just need to double check whose comments you are responding to.  ;)

Ugh, I'm sorry.

February 08, 2016, 07:13:40 PM
Reply #14

palmer6strings

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More of my friends are gun owners than aren't, as an FYI. Just because I have a different opinion, doesn't mean I write someone off. So don't think that I'm going to dislike or yeah talk you for having a different opinion in this matter. Ask Palmer, we get along just fine :)

Hell ya, even though we are polar opposites on the issue at hand, I still love ya bro.
What are you looking at? You think baby's don't like video games? THEN YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BABIES!!