Is the Neo Geo worth getting?

[Einhander]

I have a bunch of systems that I have collected for. Something just seems special about Neo Geo. It's fun to play arcade type games, SNK has always been good. Blazing Star seems like a really good quality shooter. But it's a pretty expensive system. And even if you get it, is it better to just build an arcade cabinet?

Then there is Neo Geo Cd. What's the difference between Neo Geo and the Neo Geo CD?
Also, why doesn't this site have Neo Geo covers?

[segamer]

I have a NEO GEO AES system. It's the most expensive system to collect for but it's also my favorite. If you don't like spending upwards of $300 a game, I recommend buying an actual Arcade Unit/MVS  or a Neo Geo Jamma board and a supergun. It's worth every penny.

[Einhander]

Oh cool. And what do you mean buy the arcade unit? You're saying it's cheaper? (Sorry don't know too much about neo geo)

[KalessinDB]

What segamer said.  If you're getting into AES, you're getting into a world of hurt.

Dirt-cheap common games are 30-50 bucks (+ shipping, and if you're asking why we don't have covers for NG games, I don't think you quite comprehend just how big these things are), cheap games are 75-100 bucks, and expensive games can reach 4 figures.

CMVS (Consolized MVS, turning the arcade board into a "console") is a much cheaper alternative - you'll pay maybe (MAYBE) a hair more upfront depending on what features you want, but the games will as a whole be significantly cheaper. Dirt-cheap commons for MVS are 10-15 bucks, cheap games are 30-50 bucks, and all but the most expensive can be had for 200 or less on average.  If you choose to go this way, I would recommend Jamma-Nation-X.com, the owner is an amazing guy who modded both my systems as well as made my supergun.  He stands behind his work and works at very reasonable prices for the quality he does.  Also good is the Omega CMVS, by a gentleman named shadowkn55 on Neo-Geo.com.  I'd personally recommend staying away from Analogue Interactive -- good products, but stupidly expensive -- as well as Neotropolis on ebay (for the same reason).  Actually just stay away from ebay altogether.

There ARE converters to play MVS games on an AES system, but they're not cheap (I have the cheapest and it ran me 100 bucks) and they're not flawless.  They're mostly pretty damn good, but not flawless.  There's also a BIOS mod for both MVS and AES systems called "UniBIOS" that lets you tell the system whether it should identify as a home version or arcade version -- every cartridge based games, even the ones that never "officially" had a home release, has both home and arcade versions on the same cartridge, that (along with language) is set purely by what the BIOS is identifying as.

NGCD is a different animal altogether.  The majority of MVS games got CD ports, but not all.  There's a handful of CD-only games as well, but they're all Japanese so unless you can read moon language you're out of luck -- unlike cartridge-based systems, the CDs don't have both languages on them.  It's comically easy to change the region of the CD -- it's a jumper, which you can easily wire up to a switch on the outside if you want to be able to change it on the fly -- but changing the region of the system, unlike with the cart-based versions, won't change the display language.  NGCD has painfully, painfully long loading times.  No really.  Painfully.  And when you figure most NG games are arcade games, especially fighters and puzzle games, and think about just how often fighters and puzzle games load... yeah.  It's brutal.  However, NGCD also has zero copy protection so it's a great way to try out games before you buy.

I myself have both an AES (with UniBIOS mod) and a NGCD, both modified for Component video.  I also have a friend with a standup MVS cabinet and am thinking about getting a CMVS myself eventually, but it's low on the list.  My collection stands at 8 CD (bought in a lot when I got the unit), 6 AES, and 27 MVS games.  The MVS route is just the way to go -- although with the increase in popularity CMVSes are seeing, their games are going up in price too.

Anyway, hope I didn't scare you off -- it's a great system and I recommend getting into it if you can afford it, but it's not for the faint of heart.  Feel free to ask any questions.

[Einhander]

What segamer said.  If you're getting into AES, you're getting into a world of hurt.

Dirt-cheap common games are 30-50 bucks (+ shipping, and if you're asking why we don't have covers for NG games, I don't think you quite comprehend just how big these things are), cheap games are 75-100 bucks, and expensive games can reach 4 figures.

CMVS (Consolized MVS, turning the arcade board into a "console") is a much cheaper alternative - you'll pay maybe (MAYBE) a hair more upfront depending on what features you want, but the games will as a whole be significantly cheaper. Dirt-cheap commons for MVS are 10-15 bucks, cheap games are 30-50 bucks, and all but the most expensive can be had for 200 or less on average.  If you choose to go this way, I would recommend Jamma-Nation-X.com, the owner is an amazing guy who modded both my systems as well as made my supergun.  He stands behind his work and works at very reasonable prices for the quality he does.  Also good is the Omega CMVS, by a gentleman named shadowkn55 on Neo-Geo.com.  I'd personally recommend staying away from Analogue Interactive -- good products, but stupidly expensive -- as well as Neotropolis on ebay (for the same reason).  Actually just stay away from ebay altogether.

There ARE converters to play MVS games on an AES system, but they're not cheap (I have the cheapest and it ran me 100 bucks) and they're not flawless.  They're mostly pretty damn good, but not flawless.  There's also a BIOS mod for both MVS and AES systems called "UniBIOS" that lets you tell the system whether it should identify as a home version or arcade version -- every cartridge based games, even the ones that never "officially" had a home release, has both home and arcade versions on the same cartridge, that (along with language) is set purely by what the BIOS is identifying as.

NGCD is a different animal altogether.  The majority of MVS games got CD ports, but not all.  There's a handful of CD-only games as well, but they're all Japanese so unless you can read moon language you're out of luck -- unlike cartridge-based systems, the CDs don't have both languages on them.  It's comically easy to change the region of the CD -- it's a jumper, which you can easily wire up to a switch on the outside if you want to be able to change it on the fly -- but changing the region of the system, unlike with the cart-based versions, won't change the display language.  NGCD has painfully, painfully long loading times.  No really.  Painfully.  And when you figure most NG games are arcade games, especially fighters and puzzle games, and think about just how often fighters and puzzle games load... yeah.  It's brutal.  However, NGCD also has zero copy protection so it's a great way to try out games before you buy.

I myself have both an AES (with UniBIOS mod) and a NGCD, both modified for Component video.  I also have a friend with a standup MVS cabinet and am thinking about getting a CMVS myself eventually, but it's low on the list.  My collection stands at 8 CD (bought in a lot when I got the unit), 6 AES, and 27 MVS games.  The MVS route is just the way to go -- although with the increase in popularity CMVSes are seeing, their games are going up in price too.

Anyway, hope I didn't scare you off -- it's a great system and I recommend getting into it if you can afford it, but it's not for the faint of heart.  Feel free to ask any questions.

Very nice post by all of you. I'm going to reread all of this multiple times. Do you know how much it costs to make an arcade NEO Geo cabinet? Or is the MVS the same thing?

[KalessinDB]

You don't really... "make" a Neo Geo cabinet, honestly.  You buy them.  I've seen prices range from $100 for beat-to-shit but working cabinets with a 1slot board up to $1k+ for pristine and/or expertly restored 6slots.  It also depends heavily on what's available in your area, as shipping can add on $3-400+ easily.

MVS is the semi-official term for the arcade motherboard.  A Neo Geo cabinet would have an MVS board in it, but there's plenty of MVS boards that aren't in cabinets -- they've been consolized (CMVS is the term for those) or just sit bare, hooked up to a supergun.  AES games come with the pretty cases from SNK, have much larger/nicer labels, and originally came with instruction books though they're rarer.  MVS games have a text-only label kinda like an old VHS tape might, although there ARE replacement labels that are picture and very nice (though still smaller than AES labels), and originally came in brown cardboard boxes with move strips -- that's referred to as "full kit" games usually these days, and will jack those reasonable MVS prices up to AES levels usually.  There's also several different options for aftermarket boxes for MVS games to pretty it up on the shelf -- Shock Boxes from Southtown Homebrew being the prettiest, comparable to the best of covers from this site.  I personally go with one called Neominibox, much cheaper and it gets the spine nice which is all I care about -- in the end, they are utilitarian after all.

You may remember the Neo cabinets having multiple games in them -- MVS boards come in 1slot, 2slot, 4slot, and 6slot varieties.  The 1slots are the ones most commonly made into CMVS, and they're the ones that are JAMMA standard (the "generic" hookup inside of the majority of arcade cabinets from early 80s to late 90s/early 00s era).  2/4/6 slots have a similar but not exactly identical standard (mostly to account for the fact that they have stereo sound, which wasn't JAMMA standard) pinouts so if you use them with a supergun you need an adapter.

[the7k]

Is it worth it to get a Neo Geo? If we're talking the MVS: yes, yes and very yes.

I own a 1-Slot, 2-Slot and 6-Slot MVS board. (Had a 4-Slot but it died...) Got a good handful of games. Would love to own a complete collection, but that'll be a slow burner.

MVS is the only way in my opinion. AES is Rolls-Royce expensive. Neo Geo CD is pretty cheap and good for single player, but you'll need patience to deal with the loading - patience that honestly makes it impossible to play fighters with friends unless you go with the earlier fighters, and considering the Neo Geo is well known for fighters... yeah.

If you wanna make it easy, just go to an arcade auction and buy a cheap arcade cab with a decent monitor. I've gotten arcade cabs with decent monitors for as cheaply as $25. (It was a Die Hard Arcade cab with a bad Sega ST-V Titan board, but if you are going to put a Neo Geo MVS board in anyway, who cares.) Wire up the four buttons per player (MVS uses 4 JAMMA buttons per player, while most cabs us at most 3 JAMMA buttons - even SF2 cabs use 3 JAMMA buttons and 3 JAMMA Plus buttons for the Kicks, so even with those you'd still have to wire up the fourth button) or if you don't wanna wire up, buy a Neo Geo cab specifically (with four buttons obviously.) If you don't have the space, make a Supergun. Or buy one. Still cheaper than going the AES route.

[Einhander]

Is it worth it to get a Neo Geo? If we're talking the MVS: yes, yes and very yes.

I own a 1-Slot, 2-Slot and 6-Slot MVS board. (Had a 4-Slot but it died...) Got a good handful of games. Would love to own a complete collection, but that'll be a slow burner.

MVS is the only way in my opinion. AES is Rolls-Royce expensive. Neo Geo CD is pretty cheap and good for single player, but you'll need patience to deal with the loading - patience that honestly makes it impossible to play fighters with friends unless you go with the earlier fighters, and considering the Neo Geo is well known for fighters... yeah.

If you wanna make it easy, just go to an arcade auction and buy a cheap arcade cab with a decent monitor. I've gotten arcade cabs with decent monitors for as cheaply as $25. (It was a Die Hard Arcade cab with a bad Sega ST-V Titan board, but if you are going to put a Neo Geo MVS board in anyway, who cares.) Wire up the four buttons per player (MVS uses 4 JAMMA buttons per player, while most cabs us at most 3 JAMMA buttons - even SF2 cabs use 3 JAMMA buttons and 3 JAMMA Plus buttons for the Kicks, so even with those you'd still have to wire up the fourth button) or if you don't wanna wire up, buy a Neo Geo cab specifically (with four buttons obviously.) If you don't have the space, make a Supergun. Or buy one. Still cheaper than going the AES route.

Thanks as far as space, how big would you say the average arcade cabinet is for the Neo Geo? I'm really thinking about this. I have many consoles. But I'm starting to think the way to get the best Neo experience is to play them the way they're meant to be played, on a cabinet. Something about playing Metal Slug on a cabinet as opposed to a console.

[the7k]

A typical Big Red is going to take up about as much space as a refrigerator and about as tall too. So yeah, it's going to take up some room. There are "Mini" Neo Geo cabs made for sitting down at, but they are very hard to find and usually pretty pricy.

As long as it's a JAMMA cab (which is most of them - if it's from the 90s, it's almost definitely JAMMA) you can just throw a 1-Slot Neo Geo MVS board into any cab, you just need to wire the fourth JAMMA button. I'd say going with a standard JAMMA cab and a 1-Slot is best, because you can just swap out more JAMMA games too. (2-Slot and up Neo Geo cabs aren't quite JAMMA compliant.)

[TDIRunner]

Very interesting discussion.  I'm enjoying sitting in the background quietly reading this.  But I'm still not quite following what the supergun is.

[segamer]

Very interesting discussion.  I'm enjoying sitting in the background quietly reading this.  But I'm still not quite following what the supergun is.

95% of arcade units use a standard connector called Jamma. It's a harness that lets you swap out arcade PCB's. A supergun lets you play arcade PCBs on your TV. It looks like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperGun-Arcade-JAMMA-PCB-Neo-Geo-PGM-Atomiswave-Capcom-Konami-Sega-Cave-NEW-/390959922545?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0706fd71
 

[TDIRunner]

That's helpfull.  Thank you.

So it's not some type of Neo Geo light gun.

[marioxb]

I know a bit about arcades and Neo Geo, so it makes sense to me. But I'm reading this, pretending I don't know what it all is. You guys are throwing out a lot of words that "average Joe" wouldn't know. So here we go for dummies, and of course I mean nothing by that:

MVS (Multi Video System): The board you would find inside of a Neo Geo arcade cabinet. Just bare circuitry,  much like a PC motherboard. They come in 1, 2, 4 or six slot variations, meaning how many cartridges can fit in at once, using buttons on the cabinet to switch between them.

AES (Advanced Entertainment System): Home version of the above, basically the pcb in a console shell, though the pinout was changed on these (think NES vs Famicom), so you couldn't play AES on MVS or vice versa. Originality came with joysticks rather than controllers, though controllers were made later.

Jamma: arcade board pinout since about 1987 or so. Meaning arcade boards with these pinouts can be interchangeable,  more or less. Jamma supports mono sound and 3 buttons and a joystick and start button per 2 players. If the game requires more than this, they are typically wired directly to the board (4 players, stereo sound, more buttons, etc)

Supergun: a device that connects to a TV and accepts jamma boards so you can play them as you would console games, I think using neo geo controllers/ joysticks. Typically these are "naked" meaning all of the circuitry/pcbs are exposed with no shell over them. You can make your own pladtic/ wood/ whatever shell if you like, or get something pre made.

Neo Geo AES and MVS games are HUGE. About the size of the Wii system or a VHS tape. The home games are rounded, "prettier" for home consumers with boxes and artwork on the labels. The arcade carts are more square, with simply a VHS like label on the spine.

[TDIRunner]

Aren't you reversing AES and MVS?  Shouldn't AES be the home version and MVS the actual arcade unit?

I'm pretty sure AES stood for Advanced Entertainment System.

[marioxb]

Yes. Oopsie. Fixed.