Retron 5 (aka 4)

[Ozzy_98]

There's two main types of zappers, ones that track via the horizontal refresh rate, and ones that when you pull the trigger, only the targets are shown in white.  If there's 2-3 targets, each one lights up per frame, so it can tell which one it saw. So I'm not sure why a nes light gun would have issues with any newer TV.  Other zappers like the SMS, sure, there's no refresh.

[TyrannicalFascist]

@Wiggy - I totally agree with you. I hate that about new systems too. I want to just turn it on and play. I have an Ouya and while I can emulate anything I want from a variety of systems, I have to:

-Press and hold the power button
-Wait for Ouya to boot, usually give an error about something I sideloaded not working
-Turn on the Ouya controller, wait for it to sync
-Navigate to Play section, select Nostalgia (because I prefer a frontend for that many emulators)
-Wait for Nostalgia to load
-Navigate the systems & games, select one
-Plug in my SNES controller into my USB adapter
-Start playing the game only to realize I last was using the Ouya controller so I navigate the settings to set the controller
-Then finally, select continue last state or restart and I can play the games

There's also the initial set up of button mapping, navigating to where the Roms are located, where to save, not to mention not all emulators have the same interface - sometimes A is select, sometimes B.

And even then for me the input has some noticeable delay. While it's convenient in theory, it's a huge hassle just to play a classic game. In fact it's a huge project. And you can forget about easily navigating the Ouya with the SNES controller, so you have to juggle multiple things.

The Retron 5 probably sounds like that based on the issues JDavis and I are noting, but really it's a very nice solution. I'm mostly tracking compatibility so it can be fixed in an upcoming update. On the Retron 5 I just have to:

-Power on the system
-Insert game
-Play game
-Optionally mess with settings or pick save states

I don't even need the Retron controller, I just leave my SNES controller in all the time. The save issue is kind of confusing right now, but I understand it has already been improved a lot with the first update from what it was, and it seems to primarily affect Game Boy games. And JDavis is right, it seems to be that the system backs up the saves, and then it just appears to be missing on the cart when it really isn't (with a few very rare exceptions). So I'm confident it will be all straightened out soon (technically the system hasn't officially launched yet). And I now have all my save games copied to the Retron and can copy them to the SD card to save them on my PC. The whole save copying thing only happens automatically the first time you insert a new cart into the system, not every time, and I believe it can be turned off anyways.

So all in all I think this is a great system, especially as an all-in-one solution for modern TVs. It's not perfect but it looks to be improving on the software side of things. Not a replacement for the originals, but a good addition to my setup, and probably how I will be playing most of these games now. I think most importantly it's an option that pretty much works without a ton of customization and setting up, like the Ouya.

@JDavis - Those cabinets and front-ends look pretty neat! Nice work. I got my copies of Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt/World Class Track Meet and Yoshi to be recognized and worked just fine, so I'd clean them again and keep trying.

I guess I always assumed that the incompatibility with zappers and HDTVs had to do with CRTs originally having curved screens. It's too bad it isn't as simple as a company designing a new zapper with a different lens or something...

EDIT: One of the people following the Hyperkin FB page has been compiling a master document of compatibility: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDQByg6OWl6eFwzqLdJm18tDjCZ2up1b2DbOdJyRxFc/edit#gid=101731896

I directed him here.

[dashv]

Hey guys.

TyrannicalFascist pointed me to this thread.

I did a review of the Retron 5 that's quite in depth.
http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,4918.0.html

Also myself and another fellow with the handle MMan are maintaining a compatibility list in Google docs here:
https://docs.google.com/.../tn3xCad0cVguOzw81367Tfg/htmlview

We're pretty verbose with the information we collect on each game. Some entries in our compatibility list even have game play footage recorded straight from the Retron 5 thanks to MMan.

Right now we carefully guard who can contribute to the list (we are kinda paranoid about the list getting filled with incomplete/incorrect data.)

But we are looking for folks with large game collections that are willing and able to contribute.

Hyperkin has already directly addressed some of the problems I mentioned in my initial review and flagged in the compatibility database when they released Firmware 1.1.

Chances are pretty good that if your issues make our list Hyperkin will see it and look into it.

[dashv]

EDIT: One of the people following the Hyperkin FB page has been compiling a master document of compatibility: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDQByg6OWl6eFwzqLdJm18tDjCZ2up1b2DbOdJyRxFc/edit#gid=101731896

Hah! Thanks for sharing the link. I am that guy.

Hyperkin claims that zappers should work if you use an HDMI to composite converter.

If I can manage to get my hands on one I'll try it out. I plan to test several NES zapper games.

[TyrannicalFascist]

Welcome to the boards! Your review is very in-depth. I found a lot of the same things with my system, although my NES slot has a pretty tight grip - tighter than Genesis. Well as you might find with a quick browsing of the Photo Gallery forum topics, some people on here have huge collections. I'm not really one of them myself.

I've tested most of the games I owned on the last page just checking compatibility, recognition of the game name and testing the first level or so. I cleaned most of my games pretty thoroughly before testing. Hopefully our tests are helpful and I hope a few more members get a system and can test the really obscure stuff.   Glad to hear that Hyperkin is watching your list!

[dashv]

Welcome to the boards! Your review is very in-depth. I found a lot of the same things with my system, although my NES slot has a pretty tight grip - tighter than Genesis. Well as you might find with a quick browsing of the Photo Gallery forum topics, some people on here have huge collections. I'm not really one of them myself.

I've tested most of the games I owned on the last page just checking compatibility, recognition of the game name and testing the first level or so. I cleaned most of my games pretty thoroughly before testing. Hopefully our tests are helpful and I hope a few more members get a system and can test the really obscure stuff.   Glad to hear that Hyperkin is watching your list!

Thanks for the welcome and the kind words!

A decent consistency rate with our current compatibility list is one of our acceptance criteria for new folks. Mainly because there are so many variables with these old games it's easy to get conflicting information. Everything from a problematic Retron 5 unit to games with dead batteries and/or filthy contacts.

I am certainly not perfect but I do have all the original consoles and I crosscheck everything that I find non-working on the Retron 5 against the real deal. Doing that I've found a few games I had to re-clean and 1 (Tailspin) that actually does appear to have a legitimate problem with the Cartridge (doesn't work in my Retron 5 or Genesis Model 2. But it does work in my Genesis model 1 and my RDP... figure that one out.)

[Monsterman]

Hey guys.

TyrannicalFascist pointed me to this thread.

I did a review of the Retron 5 that's quite in depth.
http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,4918.0.html

Also myself and another fellow with the handle MMan are maintaining a compatibility list in Google docs here:
https://docs.google.com/.../tn3xCad0cVguOzw81367Tfg/htmlview

We're pretty verbose with the information we collect on each game. Some entries in our compatibility list even have game play footage recorded straight from the Retron 5 thanks to MMan.

Right now we carefully guard who can contribute to the list (we are kinda paranoid about the list getting filled with incomplete/incorrect data.)

But we are looking for folks with large game collections that are willing and able to contribute.

Hyperkin has already directly addressed some of the problems I mentioned in my initial review and flagged in the compatibility database when they released Firmware 1.1.

Chances are pretty good that if your issues make our list Hyperkin will see it and look into it.

MMan (or Monsterman) here - Thanks for the shout out Dashv!

[wiggy]

There's two main types of zappers, ones that track via the horizontal refresh rate, and ones that when you pull the trigger, only the targets are shown in white.  If there's 2-3 targets, each one lights up per frame, so it can tell which one it saw. So I'm not sure why a nes light gun would have issues with any newer TV.  Other zappers like the SMS, sure, there's no refresh.

The Zapper and most every other light gun actually use both to track where the gun is pointed. The white boxes to know if the gun is even aimed at a target area and the refresh to determine WHICH white box the gun is aimed at. That's why they don't work with modern TVs.

[TyrannicalFascist]

Welcome to The Cover Project, Monsterman!

[Ozzy_98]

The Zapper and most every other light gun actually use both to track where the gun is pointed. The white boxes to know if the gun is even aimed at a target area and the refresh to determine WHICH white box the gun is aimed at. That's why they don't work with modern TVs.

Nes zappers do not track horizontal refresh like other system's guns, it only has two bits to check, light sense and trigger, bits 3 and 4 located at registers $4016/$4017.  When you program the games, you have to show only one target at a time per frame on a nes (VS any other system), then check the next target. There's some info over at http://wiki.nesdev.com on it too.  So to check a target, you show it with color $20, check is bit three and four are both on, if so, it's a hit.  If just trigger but no light sense, it's a miss.  Just light sense but no trigger, they were looking at the target at least.  You generally check the trigger, then show targets, then check light sense since you know they just pulled the trigger.

And not to seem rude, but you seem to try to correct me a lot.

http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=16336.msg141669#msg141669
http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=15674.msg139112#msg139112
http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=15837.msg137332#msg137332

And a few more but I'm busy at work and can't search. I'm not exactly a noob you know.  If I say something, maybe look up what I say to make sure how you understand something is actually how it works. I mean heck, I've developed on many of these consoles. (Making lines on a 2600 counts as developing, damnit.  That ones HARD to make stuff work)

[dashv]

Ozzy,

Very informative. I've never seen such a detailed description of how it works!

[TDIRunner]

Nes zappers do not track horizontal refresh like other system's guns, it only has two bits to check, light sense and trigger, bits 3 and 4 located at registers $4016/$4017.

That sounds expensive.

[Ozzy_98]

Nes zappers do not track horizontal refresh like other system's guns, it only has two bits to check, light sense and trigger, bits 3 and 4 located at registers $4016/$4017.

That sounds expensive.

Don't make me hit you with a large hex number.

That's how most low-level programming works.  You want to do something, you send a number to a specific address.  Want to check something, you read said address. Some devices call them pokes and peeks (c64 those were the actual commands).

[sheep2001]

And on the speccy.  I remember hacking speccy games for infinite lives etc, by poking to a specific address that held the number of lives.

[TyrannicalFascist]

So I decided to just go for it and try my Yoshi's Island cart. It was recognized and copied my saves just fine, and they remain on the cart no problem! I played a few levels and when I got to Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy in world 1, when I touched a Fuzzy and everything gets all "drunk", the background just went berserk - waaay more than it should on the real system. Other than that though, it seems to work fine from what I can tell.