Mega Man 9 & 10

[Forte]

I actually love MM8, satoshi_matrix.  I thought it was what it needed to be -- a 32-bit game.  The final boss is a little too hard, but so is the final boss from MM7.  I think Capcom really dropped the ball by releasing MM8 on Saturn and PSX, I mean really?  The vast majority of fans of MM1-7 would have owned an N64 so that was a bad move. 

But when you think of the saturn's amazing ability in it's 2D department, and playstation right behind it,  you would think it wouldn't be a bad choice. As far as n64, i don't think it could have done the fmv and sounds/music any justice.

Oh I didn't mean to suggest it should have been completey withheld from both platforms, but it really should have been released for the N64...  Mega Man fans would be MUCH more likely to own a Nintendo console, especially at that time in the 1990s.

Not necessarily, I was a HUGE Nintendo fan until the N64, but once I tried Super Mario 64 at a kiosk and saw how terrible that controller is (most human beings do NOT have 3 hands, Nintendo), and knowing what happened between Sony and Nintendo with regards to the Super NES CD, I went with Sony. I'm guessing most Mega Man fans did too, considering how well the games did on PS1.

[mariocaseman]

I actually love MM8, satoshi_matrix.  I thought it was what it needed to be -- a 32-bit game.  The final boss is a little too hard, but so is the final boss from MM7.  I think Capcom really dropped the ball by releasing MM8 on Saturn and PSX, I mean really?  The vast majority of fans of MM1-7 would have owned an N64 so that was a bad move. 

But when you think of the saturn's amazing ability in it's 2D department, and playstation right behind it,  you would think it wouldn't be a bad choice. As far as n64, i don't think it could have done the fmv and sounds/music any justice.

Oh I didn't mean to suggest it should have been completey withheld from both platforms, but it really should have been released for the N64...  Mega Man fans would be MUCH more likely to own a Nintendo console, especially at that time in the 1990s.

Not necessarily, I was a HUGE Nintendo fan until the N64, but once I tried Super Mario 64 at a kiosk and saw how terrible that controller is (most human beings do NOT have 3 hands, Nintendo), and knowing what happened between Sony and Nintendo with regards to the Super NES CD, I went with Sony. I'm guessing most Mega Man fans did too, considering how well the games did on PS1.

I just lost 50% of respect for you, Forte.  The N64 is not meant for 3 hands...  everyone knows that 
Mega Man 8 did pretty poorly in sales as well, look it up.
The N64 remains my favorite controller of all time!

[satoshi_matrix]

Although Megaman 8 might have been possible on N64, I cringe to think of what the controls would have been on the N64 trident controller.

I have to agree with Forte here. The N64 Trident is without a doubt one of the worst controllers from the 90s. If you play games that completely ignore the analog stick and the Zed button under it such as Mischief Makers, The New Tetris or Pokemon Puzzle League, then the N64 controller is acceptable...but for anything that requires use of that shotty analog stick, the N64 is one of the only consoles I can think of where you're better off using a third party controller.

Late in the system's life in Japan, Hori released a controller called the Hori Mini 64 that basically reversed the problem - improved the analog stick considerably, but placed the dpad in a near-impossible to use position, forcing players to use the N64 trident for games that control with the dpad.

A few years ago, a guy out of Quebec started to sell adapters that let you use GameCube controllers on the N64. The GameCube pad isn't the world's best controller either, but at least its analog stick and dpad are both serviceable.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm crapping on the N64, but it'd controller and lack of third party software crippled it in comparison to even the Sega Saturn. The N64 DOES have games I absolutely adore such as StarFox 64, Pokemon Puzzle League Space Station Silicon Valley and Goemon's Great Adventure, but it'll forever be the runner up console to the PS1 because of its controller design and the amazing library.

[wiggy]

I actually love MM8, satoshi_matrix.  I thought it was what it needed to be -- a 32-bit game.  The final boss is a little too hard, but so is the final boss from MM7.  I think Capcom really dropped the ball by releasing MM8 on Saturn and PSX, I mean really?  The vast majority of fans of MM1-7 would have owned an N64 so that was a bad move. 

The N64 was a bad move in itself.  Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with that one.

Although Megaman 8 might have been possible on N64, I cringe to think of what the controls would have been on the N64 trident controller.

I have to agree with Forte here. The N64 Trident is without a doubt one of the worst controllers from the 90s. If you play games that completely ignore the analog stick and the Zed button under it such as Mischief Makers, The New Tetris or Pokemon Puzzle League, then the N64 controller is acceptable...but for anything that requires use of that shotty analog stick, the N64 is one of the only consoles I can think of where you're better off using a third party controller.

Late in the system's life in Japan, Hori released a controller called the Hori Mini 64 that basically reversed the problem - improved the analog stick considerably, but placed the dpad in a near-impossible to use position, forcing players to use the N64 trident for games that control with the dpad.

A few years ago, a guy out of Quebec started to sell adapters that let you use GameCube controllers on the N64. The GameCube pad isn't the world's best controller either, but at least its analog stick and dpad are both serviceable.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm crapping on the N64, but it'd controller and lack of third party software crippled it in comparison to even the Sega Saturn. The N64 DOES have games I absolutely adore such as StarFox 64, Pokemon Puzzle League Space Station Silicon Valley and Goemon's Great Adventure, but it'll forever be the runner up console to the PS1 because of its controller design and the amazing library.

I actually loved the N64 controller at the time.  In retrospect, I wish they wouldn't have done the whole trident thing.  Almost nothing uses that stupid D-pad and it feels a tad weird holding the controller with 1/3 of it sticking out to the left :/

I do NOT think the controller crippled it at all.  I'd argue the opposite really.

I HATE the PS controller.  Still can't understand why anyone likes it.  The analogue sticks are in a terrible place IMO and feel sloppy and loose, among many other gripes that I have with the nearly 20 year old design that they refuse to reevaluate.

[mariocaseman]

Please note wiggy, that is your opinion...  Certainly not a fact.  The N64 was an incredibly successful console.  The GameCube..  That was a shot to the foot.

[Forte]

The N64 was a shot to the foot, the Game Cube was a chainsaw to the shoulder (and we'll just ignore the GBC and Virtual Boy). As far as I'm concerned, the Sony Playstation is the spiritual successor to the Super Nintendo. At release, same controller, but with 4 triggers instead of two. And what's this new concept?...CDs?...Nintendo has lagged behind, and continues, in actually technical innovation, relying on old franchises and gimmicks (WiiMote) to keep it's market share...that's why all the third parties went to Playstation (and later XBox). I mean really...the N64 controller wasn't designed for human hands, the GCN controller wasn't much better (why they insisted on continuing that stupid C Buttons/Stick is beyond me) when ABXY (Square, Circle, Triangle, Cross) are a proven method. And then look at the Wii..it's a NES controller you shake to get it to do what X and Y used to do. I just never bought into it.

Of course, I never bought into the Saturn controller either. Why aren't X Y Z the same size, shape, and elevation as A B C? I just can't get used to that. Loved the Dreamcast controller MUCH more.

Worst (major) controller of all time was Atari Jaguar. Then N64. Handheld goes to N-Gage and GBC/GBA (don't make ports of Super Nintendo games without an X and Y button, idiots!). At least Nintendo has released a decent controller in the last 15 years in the classic controller for Wii.

[wiggy]

Please note wiggy, that is your opinion...  Certainly not a fact.  The N64 was an incredibly successful console.  The GameCube..  That was a shot to the foot.

It didn't do nearly as well as the NES or SNES, and was absolutely murdered by its competition, the PS1.  No opinion there.

[satoshi_matrix]

The N64's not a bad system, but it had numerous hurdles it just couldn't overcome.

The N64 was delayed for over a year. The PS1 had time to hit the market and so had the Sega Saturn. For many people who just bought a PS1, the N64 was seen as too little too late.

Extremely high development costs of cartridges coupled with their limited storage kept third party developers at bay. Although the N64 was fully capable of excellent 2D games, the high development costs were too steep for most developers to even want to bother when the Playstation was a much more lucrative market. 

Gamers who had grown up with the Ataris or even the NES were now older and many of Nintendo's games no longer carried appeal. I know personally this is how I felt about a good number of N64 games, and why I have little desire to expand my N64 library beyond the 50-ish games I currently own for it, even when I see N64 games for sale cheap.

Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but for me, I never liked the N64 analog stick. I found it uncomfortable to use and an N64 controller was the first I had ever managed to break with use. I've since done that only with a Wavebird and an Xbox controller S, but for the most part all my controllers last and stand up to use just fine...but not the N64 trident.

I think if you're going to play N64, a Hori Mini 64 or Gamecube to N64 adapter is a must.

[mariocaseman]

Please note wiggy, that is your opinion...  Certainly not a fact.  The N64 was an incredibly successful console.  The GameCube..  That was a shot to the foot.

It didn't do nearly as well as the NES or SNES, and was absolutely murdered by its competition, the PS1.  No opinion there.

Not at all, Wiggy.  Do a little more research on that.  N64 was a hot item as soon as it hit shelves and never stopped selling well until the 5-year death period was near.  The PSOne did ultimately sell more units, but to say the N64 was murdered is beyond exaggeration.  I would argue the Saturn was the loser in the 3-wat battle there, and even that was not a bad system, just horribly supported. 

[wiggy]

Again, not nearly as well as its predecessors, and the PS1 outsold the N64 more than 3 to 1. Use whatever adjective you like, that's a very wide margin.  

Nintendo lost squaresoft to Sony with the N64 and the likes of Capcom and Konami made very few games for the system.  It's not a matter of opinion that the N64 was not entirely successful and that it essentially served to partially or entirely break ties with some of the biggest developers in the industry.  To this day the support of the aforementioned developers hasn't even come close to the levels of Nintendo's competitors in the home console market (I make the distinction because the GB/GBA/DS have had a lot of support from third party developers).  Not to mention the production costs for the N64 were obscene. Sony was charging something like .10 per disc, which was fully refundable for every copy of a game not sold. N64 carts could cost upwards of $15 if I recall correctly, with no hope of recouping that cost should there be a large stack of unsold copies.

Not sure what research you're suggesting I should do? 

The 'cube, much like the current president, was crippled by its predecessor.  The same goes for the Dreamcast. The Saturn put off so many of Sega's most die-hard fans which meant regaining that following with the Dreamcast, even though it was a very well conceived console with excellent third party support, was a long shot at best.

[mariocaseman]

So then you would concede that the Wii "Murdered" the Playstation 3, correct?

[shenske]

@ Mariosaeman
You may want to do some more research yourself bud.

    Worldwide sales figures
        PlayStation – 102.49 million shipped (Japan: 21.59, US: 40.78, Europe: 40.12)
              including PSone – 28.15 million shipped
        Nintendo 64 – 32.93 million (Japan: 5.54 million, the Americas: 20.63 million, other: 6.75 million)

Even though some people (you and myself included) happened to enjoy the N64 more it does not mean that is was a more successful console. Not by a long shot. Sony has been mopping the floor with Nintendo up until this last generation where the sides flipped.

[shenske]

So then you would concede that the Wii "Murdered" the Playstation 3, correct?

The Wii is without a doubt winning this generation. I don't care what anyone says about the market they appealed to or the gimmicks they may have used .... sales are sales and people purchased the machine to play games.

They did not murder the competition by any means though.  I wouldn't consider selling roughly 30% more consoles murdering the the opposition.  Don't get me wrong its a very substantial lead that will not be closed. Selling 3-7 times more consoles is definitively considered a slaughter (which is what the PS1 & PS2 did).

[wiggy]

So then you would concede that the Wii "Murdered" the Playstation 3, correct?

I'm not gonna play that game with you.

You know good and well that the Wii and PS3 cater to VERY different markets. The Wii is marketed towards the elderly, children under 10, and people who think that a video game should help them get in shape.  The PS3 is for people that like video games. 

[mariocaseman]

@ Mariosaeman
You may want to do some more research yourself bud.

    Worldwide sales figures
        PlayStation – 102.49 million shipped (Japan: 21.59, US: 40.78, Europe: 40.12)
              including PSone – 28.15 million shipped
        Nintendo 64 – 32.93 million (Japan: 5.54 million, the Americas: 20.63 million, other: 6.75 million)

Even though some people (you and myself included) happened to enjoy the N64 more it does not mean that is was a more successful console. Not by a long shot. Sony has been mopping the floor with Nintendo up until this last generation where the sides flipped.

Shenske, please read ALL my previous posts!  I NEVER said the N64 was more successful...  It was not a blunder, it was not the Saturn, Dreamcast, Jaguar, or some other piece of garbage.  To say so is crazy!  Ocarina of time is like one of the best games of all time.