The Cover Project
General Category => Feedback => Topic started by: Doom on August 06, 2010, 02:08:27 PM
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Discuss this thread (http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=4201.0) here.
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Many of our forum and cover posting rules were thrown together at different points in the site's life. They are inconsistent and frustrating to certain users. Most of them are not known unless you ask. This thread will change that.
Two weeks from now, for the duration of two weeks, all proposed rule changes will be voted on in a special forum. Only users who registered before this thread was made will be counted in the polls.
If you have an idea for a rule change that is not listed here, post it in this thread.
Proposed rule changes:
1. If a cover is for a device with a main function is illegal downloading of games, it is not allowed on the site.
2. If a cover is for an unlicensed console game, it is allowed on the site.
3. Discussion of homebrew games and applications is allowed on the site.
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1. Is it OK to make US cover for PAL only games?
2. If yes: How about Treasure Hunter G or Treasure of Rudras covers in US format? Or are they only accepted in Japanese format?
3. If yes: is Secret of Mana 2 and such are still no no? Or can they be justified as Englishified covers for Japanese games?
4. How about Starfox 2 and other unreleased ones?
Where is the line drawn?
Well the first two should be OK, and the third also.
The fourth kind is tricky, but hopefully would be accepted also.
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2. If a cover is for an unlicensed console game, it is allowed on the site.
If the game has been created and distributed freely: IE "Tengen" and "Bible Tek", I see no problem as they are officially released games that are available for everyone.
If the game was an unreleased game, that is completely different. Then that cover has been created from an illegal copy of a game, which this is what the whole site frowns upon.
Gameshark's are unlicensed but we have covers for them for most to all system...
This is a ****ing retarded **s thread for ****ing retarded **s noobs who are ****ing retarded.
Even our elite members here at TCP know not to host their covers via TCP, that is why they use Box.net or Mediashare.com
1. If a cover is for a device with a main function is illegal downloading of games, it is not allowed on the site.
This has always been understood to not be changed. Use box.net for those who wish to pay boohoo bucks for their eeprom'd games
2. If a cover is for an unlicensed console game, it is allowed on the site.
I would love my Tengen pac-man and Namco pac-man have different cases... Did Nintendo pull these copies of games out of Toys R' Us's? No? They did that to the original Tetris for the NES, nothing else. Keep unlicensed RELEASED game covers on the site.
3. Discussion of homebrew games and applications is allowed on the site.
This is a site for covers. Homebrew for consoles shouldn't exactly be condoned as talking about an emulator doesn't lead to me wanting to download the emulator and ROM's to play something that I have in my room. Mainly because I have too many damn games. However, because we as a community do share common interests; flaming/ranting/trolling/hijacking/converting someones thread into an Emulation/Homebrew flange should not be allowed. Make a new damn thread and stop hijacking someone elses thread.
If I want to ask for a cover for my SNES - Donkey Kong Competition, I don't want to be afraid of whether or not its allowed to be hosted on our site... I am just asking if someone could make a cover. If someone could make a cover to my request, ****ing awesome, if not; then that sucks. Once the cover is created, it can easily be shared. The internet is limitless.
These new members are starting to piss me the **** off
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We will vote on all of these, just because I wrote it does not make it law. Since homebrew is legal, it should be allowed to be discussed.
If 1. is passed, I will remove the current offending covers from the site. I think it's the right thing to do. (The covers don't look that great anyway)
Re: ShoothimNow
That's what I meant - I want to allow Tengen's Tetris, but not allow illegal copies of "Star Fox 2". Do we allow covers for homebrew NES games that were produced on real carts through various sites? (Retrousb for example) (http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=30&osCsid=f70969598a7053d6703c0e627db650f3)
Gamesharks should also be allowed.
No matter what you say, our rules were thrown together, and they are inconsistent. Even if nothing changes, having them written out could save some trouble.
1 - you know what I'm talking about. The DS carts that let you play downloaded games, for example.
2 - I think we agree here.
Is your DK Competition a repro? Should TCP host covers for real games that are also really rare? (Nintendo World Championships, Campus Challenge, etc.)
Re: Arseen
Star Fox 2 was never released, you probably have an illegal copy. I don't think it should be hosted on TCP.
The others are more tricky.
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Do not own Starfox 2.
Just asked those things so the line would be drawn somewhere.
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Let's talk about electronically distributed indie PC games for a second. This is an area where I personally enjoy making covers, because it answers a hypothetical "what-if" nagging in my head. That is, what if this came out in a DVD case on physical medium? Kinda like the Steam cover thread that was going on for awhile here. I like to physically burn these games to CD/DVD because I don't want money going down the drain if my HDD fails and/or I lose the registry key or whatever nonsense. It's good practice, IMO. So I have all these disks laying about caseless.
So from the sounds of things, this will be allowed discussion but not on-site hosting, correct? I would want to make a thread and produce links to box.net or where ever instead of uploading?
On that note, I kind of have to agree with ShoothimNow. I've noticed that the uploading criteria can be so fickle, many aren't even bothering anymore. I'm probably going the box.net route myself. I've seen SNES covers that were superior to ones already hosted on site rejected because of some slight banding visible only when the picture is blown up to full res. Yet, it's still better than many SNES covers, or even more so other categories such as the PC ones on here which often have terrible spines, squished information on the back pulled from CD jewel case covers, etc.
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if find all these threads so pointless. whether we host artwork for an unreleased game, an imaginary game, a translated game, whatever - we are using copyright artwork, logos, etc etc. We are not hosting roms, or disc images - so as far as legality of what we are actually hosting goes, they are all the same. It could be said that customs for unreleased games are on less dodgy ground, as the finished article is not copyrighted (although they generally contain logos, etc which are).
I think the point should be more around the ethos of the site - and if that is to archive original artwork for posterity, then all custom covers should be in a seperate section (or hosted off site) - if however the ethos is to host covers for videogames, including custom alternatives, then what difference does it make if starfox 2 or beats of rage mods are here?
The only covers which are likely to get us noticed are those for current generation consoles - but i don't hear anyone crying about those. As far as i am concerned, if the game exists (legitimately or otherwise) and it passes quality standards it doesn't hurt to host it.
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No matter what the rules of the site, they should be rules, written down and always followed. The current system is half-assed, inconsistent, and biased towards users who have been here longer / gurus and admins.
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if find all these threads so pointless. whether we host artwork for an unreleased game, an imaginary game, a translated game, whatever - we are using copyright artwork, logos, etc etc. We are not hosting roms, or disc images - so as far as legality of what we are actually hosting goes, they are all the same. It could be said that customs for unreleased games are on less dodgy ground, as the finished article is not copyrighted (although they generally contain logos, etc which are).
I think the point should be more around the ethos of the site - and if that is to archive original artwork for posterity, then all custom covers should be in a seperate section (or hosted off site) - if however the ethos is to host covers for videogames, including custom alternatives, then what difference does it make if starfox 2 or beats of rage mods are here?
The only covers which are likely to get us noticed are those for current generation consoles - but i don't hear anyone crying about those. As far as i am concerned, if the game exists (legitimately or otherwise) and it passes quality standards it doesn't hurt to host it.
I agree with this 100%
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I don't care much either way - but I would like to comment on a concern with allowing covers for homebrew...
Face it - most homebrew sucks. And there's a ton of it out there. Do we really want the server loaded with covers for every single crappy homebrew Mario game that might get downloaded two or three times?
I don't hate the idea, but I wouldn't vote for it, that's for sure.
Covers for unreleased games -naw. Don't need to tempt the copyright gods.
Covers for games only released in one format (PAL, etc.) in the style of another format? Sure. I could totally understand importing, say, a Japanese GameCube title, but disliking the way it looks on the shelf, on those shorty cases.
Unlicensed game/accessory with commercial release? Yeah. Just don't put the official Nintendo seal or anything on it. ;)
Covers for devices like R4s and Flash Cards? Naw.
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I agree with Sheep2001 pretty much on all this, but I want to respond to UncleBob real fast: do you really think that someone is going to take the time to make a high quality cover that meets the site's standards for a "Satanic Freak Bros"? Nobody's making covers for third rate hacks now. Let's face it, if we allow homebrew covers, it'll likely end up being mostly for things like Beats of Rage or Sonic Megamix.
Anyhow, as for things like circumvention devices, boot discs, flash carts, etc... it might seem tacky, but keep in mind that we really aren't stepping on as many toes as you might think. Remember, we're just providing window dressing for someone's collection, we're not providing these boot discs and flash carts ourselves. I would draw the line at making rom collection discs. Those are just tacky.
Discussion of emulation and homebrew should be allowed. The general rule of thumb on every gaming-related forum I've ever visited is that you can discuss emulation and homebrew all you want, as long as you aren't providing links to rom sites and whatnot. No warez links, no problem, that's my view.
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If you have a better rule proposal, make it. (Or if you have the power, edit my post with 4. and so on)
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a rule proposal, but here's a small idea: can we try and encourage uploading more jewel case manuals and inserts? Like perhaps as an "etiquette" thing regarding psx/dc/etc customs, if you're working with raw scans, try to clean and upload those as well as your custom DVD case version. Jewel Case inserts are something that TCP is really deficient in, and it'd be nice to change that. Same thing with genesis games.
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a rule proposal, but here's a small idea: can we try and encourage uploading more jewel case manuals and inserts? Like perhaps as an "etiquette" thing regarding psx/dc/etc customs, if you're working with raw scans, try to clean and upload those as well as your custom DVD case version. Jewel Case inserts are something that TCP is really deficient in, and it'd be nice to change that. Same thing with genesis games.
I agree with you on the cd case covers! We should have more!
For Genesis on the other hand I'd rather stick to UGC as a standard (or better said I WANT UGC to stay as the standard)! Face it even those "sturdy" Genesis/Mega Drive cases look like shit often nowadays.
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The genesis thing is mainly for those who have damaged genesis cases/inserts and want to simply replace them with something as close to retail as possible.
Genesis one isn't really as high a priority though, you can re-size genesis UGCs to fit genesis cases, and with the right dimensions they fit perfectly and have little to no visible stretching/etc when printed.
Still though bring on more cd cases!
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a rule proposal, but here's a small idea: can we try and encourage uploading more jewel case manuals and inserts? Like perhaps as an "etiquette" thing regarding psx/dc/etc customs, if you're working with raw scans, try to clean and upload those as well as your custom DVD case version. Jewel Case inserts are something that TCP is really deficient in, and it'd be nice to change that. Same thing with genesis games.
Totally agree with the Jewel Case aspect. If someone is going to clean a raw and make a DVD cover why not post the original JC cover as well?
But that is semi off-topic.
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A template for PS1 and DC Jewel Cases might be some good motivation.
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I think Shenske went into the issue a long time ago. A lot of custom DC or PS1 DVD covers were made with some official art and a very low resolution CD cover from the Internet. It's not possible to get the real scan out of that.
These ideas are not and should not be rules - TCP shouldn't restrict any potential talent. The likely outcome is less covers, not more.
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I don't think you understood what I was saying...
Often custom DVD covers are made using high resolution raw scans of the original jewel cases uploaded to our servers. I'm asking that we simply remind folks to clean those scans and upload them if they're using them to make customs.
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a rule proposal, but here's a small idea: can we try and encourage uploading more jewel case manuals and inserts? Like perhaps as an "etiquette" thing regarding psx/dc/etc customs, if you're working with raw scans, try to clean and upload those as well as your custom DVD case version. Jewel Case inserts are something that TCP is really deficient in, and it'd be nice to change that. Same thing with genesis games.
You're right. It will never be a "rule", but encouraging / reminding is a good thing to do.
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Well my post never intended it to be a rule anyhow. Like I said, an "etiquette" thing.
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Well it's been far longer than the original proposed two week timeframe...
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These rules were unanimous among Gurus, Admins, and Snowcone (though not all responded, of course). Since it is Snowcone's site, I'm glad we have his approval.
1. Covers for devices with a main function of illegal downloading of games are not allowed on the site.
3. Discussion of homebrew games and applications is allowed on the site.
4. Discussion of how to run homebrew games and applications is not allowed on the site.
Number two is still being discussed among the Gurus.
2. Covers for unlicensed console games that were released in any way are allowed on the site. This means Half-Life for Dreamcast covers aren't allowed on The Cover Project (was never released), but Tengen Tetris is allowed (was sold in stores).
This is my version, but I seem to be in the minority. Possible outcomes include
2. Covers for unlicensed console games are allowed on the site. This means both Half-Life for Dreamcast and Tengen Tetris covers are allowed.
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What about covers for just plain homebrew games? Beats of Rage, rom hacks like Sonic Megamix and Zelda: Parallel Worlds, etc?
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I don't think you understood what I was saying...
Often custom DVD covers are made using high resolution raw scans of the original jewel cases uploaded to our servers. I'm asking that we simply remind folks to clean those scans and upload them if they're using them to make customs.
yeah all my ps1 cases i did like that, with all original artwork, high quality, but they r denied cause its not the right template
sad face
i prefer them to the ps1 template thats running here, i find the original art looks better on the back
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I don't think you understood what I was saying...
Often custom DVD covers are made using high resolution raw scans of the original jewel cases uploaded to our servers. I'm asking that we simply remind folks to clean those scans and upload them if they're using them to make customs.
yeah all my ps1 cases i did like that, with all original artwork, high quality, but they r denied cause its not the right template
sad face
i prefer them to the ps1 template thats running here, i find the original art looks better on the back
I doubt they were rejected because they weren't "the right template". We have jewel case covers on the site. here (http://www.thecoverproject.net/view.php?game_id=902) and here (http://www.thecoverproject.net/view.php?cover_id=2538) are two immediate examples (the other "pieces" all have seperate entries on the game's page). Are you sure you didn't do something wrong?
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I don't think you understood what I was saying...
Often custom DVD covers are made using high resolution raw scans of the original jewel cases uploaded to our servers. I'm asking that we simply remind folks to clean those scans and upload them if they're using them to make customs.
yeah all my ps1 cases i did like that, with all original artwork, high quality, but they r denied cause its not the right template
sad face
i prefer them to the ps1 template thats running here, i find the original art looks better on the back
There's gotta be something else wrong about them. Or maybe they are still in for review and adding. Since you're an active member here in the forums I doubt that any admin would just delete your covers without telling you what was wrong.
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I had responded to this around the time the thread was started, but my ipod accidentally dumped the post and I couldn't be bothered to retype. I agree with what most have said anyway. I think both unreleased and unlicensed games should definitely be allowed on the site. Homebrew has its place on Box.net, and I think it should stay there to avoid general clutter. (A Box.net sticky would be a good idea though)
I also agree with the general courtesy of uploading raw jewel case covers along with DVD customs. Maybe we could encourage it by putting a tiny reminder on the uploads page.
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it's been another two weeks...
ANYTHING regarding this?
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:-[
I brought it up again.
Whatever 2 turns out to be, it needs to address these specific examples:
1. Tengen Tetris (retail release, unlicensed)
2. Half-Life (Dreamcast) (Never released, only pirate copies exist)
3. Zelda: Parallel Worlds (Homebrew hack of real game, only exists as a ROM or on reproduction carts)
4. USA-style covers for Japanese only releases (chances are good this would be a translation hack on a reproduction cart)
5. Beats of Rage (Homebrew Dreamcast game)
6. Beats of Rage: The Simpsons Arcade (Homebrew with unlicensed IP)
I can't think of any others.
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As I said in the private discussion point 1 makes sense for me the rest not.
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They all seem fine to me. We're honestly far LESS likely to get in trouble for unlicensed/unreleased games than we are for the stuff we already host.
We at one point allowed those games anyhow, we never had problems then, so honestly I think unwarranted paranoia quite frankly isn't a good enough reason to exclude these sorts of things.
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If we're going to allow covers for hacks/homebrew, I demand a cover for (NSFW) [spoiler]The Legend of Zelda: Link Gets Laid[/spoiler]. I've never actually played this game, but this article (http://badderhacksnet.ipage.com/badderhacks/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47:the-legend-of-zelda-link-gets-laid&catid=10:rom-hacks&Itemid=2) (also NSFW) totally shows just how deserving of a cover this game is. I'd probably get something like this on a repo cart, if there was an option for that. ;)
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Unless we establish a concrete rule against, erm, adult games, I see no reason why we shouldn't host it so long as whatever cover is made passes quality standards. Hell the high quality standards we have alone should filter out most of the fluff anyhow.
(also oh god I can't stop laughing reading that)
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Unless we establish a concrete rule against, erm, adult games, I see no reason why we shouldn't host it so long as whatever cover is made passes quality standards.
I've been trying to stay out of this one but i bet you guys can take guess how i feel about this. I'm all for hosting unlinced games but not that kind of game. ::)
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Yeah, it's fully understandable haha
(what about stuff like Custer's Revenge? That's a no-go too I assume?)
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I don't see a problem hosting covers for adult games if they are proper releases (like Jast USA releases and such). Japanese eroge usually has artwork and music done by legit professionals so it is games after all. Random pervy romhacks however are probably more debateable
At worst just put a (NSFW) next to the game name in the listing.
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I don't see a problem hosting covers for adult games if they are proper releases (like Jast USA releases and such). Japanese eroge usually has artwork and music done by legit professionals so it is games after all. Random pervy romhacks however are probably more debateable
At worst just put a (NSFW) next to the game name in the listing.
I think a bigger question might be how many people are actually going to make a cover that meets the site's quality standards for some random pervy rom hack anyhow?
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You'd be surprised over the people who inhabit this world of ours my friend. Don't be shocked if you suddenly see a cover Nude Punch Out that exceeds all expectations.
Not from me of course.....
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Oh god this is exactly going were I never want our site to go.
Cover sections full of useless romhack game covers which have no reason to exist on a site which is there to preserve artwork for games which will be lost in time someday.
Maybe you missed my point apple. My concern is not the pirating problem (MPAA, RIAA and the likes f**k off) or the adult stuff problem! It is just that I do not want to have useless romhack covers or covers for regions which never existed for a game on the site! Who needs such stuff anyway?
The preserve something it has to physically exist in the first place!
Hmmm.... Maybe it is a bit difficult to explain for me in english.
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Well for romhacks, the only ones that should ever be considered would be the ones that have a good reproduction cart rate and actually needs a cover. As for translated repros that's a bit more difficult. I'd say it has a good place in our community on our forums and perhaps in a special section on the wiki, but not on the main site.
Unless it is Nude Punch Out of course, then it goes right onto the mainsite, no validation process for that one.
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If the goal of the site is to preserve the art of games, then why allow any customs of any kind at all? Why are you against genesis case covers being the standard for genesis/master system games if the goal is preservation?
I'm just going to copy a portion of sheep's post from earlier in the thread:
I think the point should be more around the ethos of the site - and if that is to archive original artwork for posterity, then all custom covers should be in a seperate section (or hosted off site) - if however the ethos is to host covers for videogames, including custom alternatives, then what difference does it make if starfox 2 or beats of rage mods are here?
Or we can establish something as simple as "must be available in a physical form", be it reproduction carts, chinese pirate carts (Kart Fighter, NES FF7), DC .isos burned to cd-r, etc.
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If the goal of the site is to preserve the art of games, then why allow any customs of any kind at all? Why are you against genesis case covers being the standard for genesis/master system games if the goal is preservation?
1. It would be my personal goal to preserve artwork if this would be my site. It isn't.
2. I would not want customs on the site if it were my site. It isn't though.
3. I'm against Genesis cases being standard because they are not easily available in large quantities for small money and often don't look like new anymore(or better said look extremly f'd up).
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Customs aren't bad. Remember, this site started out from the idea of making custom GBA covers for DS cases.
Likewise, as I said before, I could totally see importing a game (for example, a GameCube game) that comes in a totally different style case and wanting a cover that fits the style of the rest of your collection. Heck, my single imported GameCube title actually shares a two-disc case with the NA release of the game.
*and* if we're going to throw out all customs, the entire peripheral thread is done for. And I really like the idea of cases/covers for memory cards and such. And there's things like, say, Chibi Robo for the DS, where I requested a cover without the ugly "Only at Walmart" logo. Plus games like the original Guitar Hero DS, Wii Sports, Metroid Prime Hunters demo, etc., etc... These are some of our most popular downloads. (anyone have an actual list of our top 10 downloads?).
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(anyone have an actual list of our top 10 downloads?).
76857 Wii Sports (Wii) view
69504 Street Fighter Alpha 3 for Matching Service (DC) view
14515 Link's Crossbow Training (Wii) view
11153 Wii Sports (Wii) view
5149 Wii Sports (Wii) view
4915 Wii Sports (Wii) view
4706 Super Paper Mario (Wii) view
4347 Wii Sports (Wii) view
4276 Wii Sports (Wii) view
4036 Wii Sports (Wii) view
3650 Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, The (Wii) view
3512 Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) view
3507 Excite Truck (Wii) view
3480 Cooking Mama (Wii) view
3426 Sonic and the Secret Rings (Wii) view
3283 WarioWare Smooth Moves (Wii) view
3202 Mario Party 8 (Wii) view
3190 Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition (Wii) view
3047 Wii Sports (Wii) view
3003 Trauma Center: Second Opinion (Wii) view
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So, 9 of the top 10 downloads are for custom covers... :)
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Those numbers have gotta be skewed somehow. They're all Wii games (save for SFA3 for Matching Service, a rather random title to get so many downloads...)
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Those numbers have gotta be skewed somehow. They're all Wii games (save for SFA3 for Matching Service, a rather random title to get so many downloads...)
Wii Sports had no real cover in the US version so I think some of those downloads could be legit.
Secondly the Wii is the easiest thing to play backups on so.....
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Secondly the Wii is the easiest thing to play backups on so.....
Uhh.... it was EXTREMELY hard for me to do anything with my neighbors Wii!! First with Error: -002, then with a dead disc drive, and then again with a WBFS partition on a HDD from a HDD that already had 700GB of data on it. Uhhh.... the Wii has gave me personally hell..
On the other hand, my 2 PSP's were right off the press with V1.50 Firmware - easy. PS2 - swap magic + Free McBoot. or even HDLoader. Kind of Ironic that I would rant about this in the Rules Change Discussion
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Wii was hacked almost from day one. It has been in the top downloads here since the first covers were made for it, especially with Wii Sports covers being linked from all over. The Street Fighter cover is from when someone brought TCP down by downloading that cover some 60,000 times.
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Secondly the Wii is the easiest thing to play backups on so.....
Uh, dreamcast and sega cd are FAR easier to play backups on. You don't even need to mod them in any way.
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sega cd and DC might be easier to play backups on, but high speed downloads weren't around when they were the latest consoles.
also - i think that SF3 cover for DC was flagged at the time it was posted - some bot went mad and DL'd it thousands of times in 24 hours.
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What a weird cover to target a download attack on...
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Maybe it was a bot who knew a little bit about fighting games. ;D
It is a great game after all!
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During the rule discussion, are you guys planning at all to address freeware and indie PC games?
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During the rule discussion, are you guys planning at all to address freeware and indie PC games?
I couldn't possibly think of a reason why not. :)
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freeware and indie PC games?
I have my doubts about these...
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freeware and indie PC games?
I have my doubts about these...
so we shouldn't allow covers for Cave Story, Eversion, Noitu Love, etc etc
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As PC covers are pretty low on the importance list anyway this is not really in the discussion.
After all how often do covers for indie games on the PC turn up?
Once in three years?
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Well... what's the current policy for those then? Just seems like it's never at all been addressed.
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Well... what's the current policy for those then? Just seems like it's never at all been addressed.
Good question. I personally wouldn't bother upping them.
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Those numbers have gotta be skewed somehow. They're all Wii games (save for SFA3 for Matching Service, a rather random title to get so many downloads...)
Someone setup a script to download it 65000 over the course of 2 days.
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I wonder if they realize that if you need to print out 65,000 copies of it... You can print all of that from 1 file ::) (obviously a joke; don't be hate'n)