The Cover Project
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ownaholic on December 25, 2011, 04:46:09 PM
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Hey everyone!
First and foremost, I'm not at all trying to advertise. I'm just looking for some feedback and see what the popular consensus is on this. I've put a lot of work into these boxes, and a lot of research and experimentation went in to figuring out the correct dimensions, how to create the box, how to print it properly, and creating a 100% detail-accurate replication of a SNES box.
Basically over the last few months I've taught myself how to reproduce "original" Super Nintendo Boxes, as well as posters.
I don't like the idea of reproducing boxes for games that have been officially released in America, because I don't like the legal implications of someone asking for a rare box, me making it for them, and then them just putting it up on eBay. So I only intend to make boxes and posters for games that have never been released in America. (I do not do cartridge reproductions, I'm sure most of you know where you can find those.)
I also plan on making custom-order boxes for anybody that wants them for any reason. I'm very good at making the box art myself, and I would love to be able to offer this service to the RPG Maker VX community, as I'm sure they would love to be able to have some of their homebrewed games given their own official boxes that they can hold in their hands. I'm sure I can also rig up a way to make it so that a CD (RPG Maker VX games are exported onto CDs) can fit inside, rather than the cart.
Because of college, I've only been able to make two game boxes so far:
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
and
Secret of Mana 2 (Seiken Densetsu 3) + World Map
The only thing I intend to make for games that have been released in America, are poster versions of in-game maps, as well as world maps. For example, imagine having a poster of Onett from Earthbound (or any of the other towns for that matter). I also intend to offer reproduction services for game labels. Sometimes game labels get damaged big-time, so I have no problem making game labels for games that already exist.
Anywho, here is what I have so far! For obvious reasons, I have a watermark on each image, and I am shrinking down each image so nobody can steal these from me; mainly because I don't have the time at the moment to make full on 3D display boxes.
For any would-be thieves, I also intend to put a logo for my website on each and every back in the fine-print, so as to prevent any piracy scans claiming ownership.
Also, where you traditionally see the "Official Nintendo Product" image, I replaced the text inside with "Unofficial Nintendo Reproduction", so that anybody can plainly see that these are not official SNES products. This should help combat any eBay selling claiming to be an authentic product.
ANYWHO, here are the products so far!
(http://clevernoob.com/images/tofrontdisplay.png)
(http://clevernoob.com/images/tobackdisplay.png)
(http://clevernoob.com/images/som2frontdisplay.png)
(http://clevernoob.com/images/som2backdisplay.png)
(http://clevernoob.com/images/SOM2MAPDISPLAY.png)
I've also made a version of the SOM2 box saying "Seiken Densetsu 3", rather than Secret of Mana 3.
Also, all products are not 100% finished, I still need to add some fine details.
But as soon as I get everything set up on my website, things should be ready to go.
What's your thought? Good? Bad? Any points of advice? Anything you would like to see made next?
Thanks so much for your time! ;D
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This is a clear BIG NO NO post.
You are basicly advertizing selling copyrighted material, which compromises the integrity of our site.
If you would be providing this material for free, it would be OK, but selling/advertizing it here is not OK.
Anyway those do look amazing.
I locked this topic for other Admins to have a look, and make final decision.
I'm not against selling repro boxes, maps and manuals you have made yourself, just doing it on our site is not OK.
EDIT: Quess this topic is OK as no higher Admin has deleted this after reading, so I unlock this.
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I wish people sell Repro Boxes & Manuals for like free, but they will be losing Money on it...
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Hey Arseen!
Like I said, this topic is more for getting feedback on those two boxes and the map, more than it is for advertising.
I figured I should at least enlighten people on what I will be doing, so nobody thinks I will be making fake boxes for games that already exist and calling them originals; because I don't agree with that.
Anyway, MarioMania, I wish I could sell them for free, but the products themselves used to create the boxes are very expensive, and the entire process is extremely time-consuming.
Even still, I intend to have them available for relatively cheap (Like $15-$20 a box maybe?). Custom-orders on the other hand will be a little bit higher.
Now like Arseen said, let's get back on-topic and talk about the boxes themselves, what does everybody think? ;D
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It's not the selling of boxes and maps or even repro manuals or games, but advertizing (ie telling that you are selling) of selling copyrighted material which puts this site at risk.
But like I said amazing stuff.
I might order Secret of Mana 2 map if it's high quality and large (minimum of A2, but would prefer A1 or even A0) and delivered unfolded.
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A1 or A0 deliverd unfolded? Impossible in my oppinion without getting damaged. Best method would be in a roll I think. I received big posters this way many times and never had a problem.
The boxes look great artwise though I'd never pay 15-20USD for basically a bit cardboard and ink.
And yes NO advertising of the selling of copyright infriging material!!!
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Yeah, the shipping costs would run quite high for an A1 or A0 shipped unfolded; especially in a roll case.
I haven't 100% decided on the prices yet, so it could end up being lower. I think I might actually drop it to $10 each; that ought to still cover the costs of materials and the high-priced laser toner. Don't forget there's always shipping to deal with; but that shouldn't be much.
But ah we keep getting back to the business aspect of the topic; I really don't mean to keep driving it that way, I just want to make sure that I answer all the questions. =]
And theoretically, I doubt Nintendo would go after TCP for my posting of this; especially since they are for products that were never even released in America, so the licensing is very limited on these specific products. Of course, that is also assuming that they would actually waste their time and resources entering a legal battle with a small fry such as myself or the site.
If anything, it is really promoting their products that have never been released in America, and thus garnering the product-line's next-gen ports more attention.
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True that they were mot released in America, but Square-Enix stills owns the rights for the characters.
And yes by unfolded I meant postage rolled.
To save in postage I'd probably order several different ones.
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I love how "COPYRIGHT" is plastered all over the covers, when infact he doesn't own the copyrights to the product. Seems kinda silly... plus, we don't "watermark" any of our work here, so why start now?
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I love how "COPYRIGHT" is plastered all over the covers, when infact he doesn't own the copyrights to the product. Seems kinda silly... plus, we don't "watermark" any of our work here, so why start now?
No need for ill-hearted sarcasm. In fact, I do own the intellectual rights for those specific designs, regardless of the content itself.
One can own a re-arrangement of already-copyrighted material, especially in the art world (IE: All the controversy over the Barack Obama "HOPE" portrait that Shepard Fairey made, despite the fact that he did not own the rights to the photo he was using to make the artwork), provided that it greatly differs from the original product.
Considering the fact that all of the images used in my work greatly differ from the original images in the sense that they have never been used in this manner, it counts. Also, if you can read, I clearly changed the "Official Nintendo Product" gold sticker to "Unofficial Nintendo Reproduction". I am not claiming this to be an authentic product.
Plus, this is not a traditional cover that is produced here at TCP, and in fact took a lot more work due to the fact of having to make a custom template from scratch and make it match 100% with reality. As such, I would like to protect it from being redistributed without my knowledge.
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I haven't 100% decided on the prices yet, so it could end up being lower. I think I might actually drop it to $10 each; that ought to still cover the costs of materials and the high-priced laser toner. Don't forget there's always shipping to deal with; but that shouldn't be much.
I still think those prices are a bit high. I made my n64 mini boxes using a laser printer and it only costs $0.95 for the whole box. To make a full size recreation it would use two sheets for a total of $1.90. Then if we add shipping (ballpark) $2. $5 a box shipped to the house seems reasonable to me :)
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I haven't 100% decided on the prices yet, so it could end up being lower. I think I might actually drop it to $10 each; that ought to still cover the costs of materials and the high-priced laser toner. Don't forget there's always shipping to deal with; but that shouldn't be much.
I still think those prices are a bit high. I made my n64 mini boxes using a laser printer and it only costs $0.95 for the whole box. To make a full size recreation it would use two sheets for a total of $1.90. Then if we add shipping (ballpark) $2. $5 a box shipped to the house seems reasonable to me :)
So basically I'd be getting $1 for each sale. Given the fact that I put hours of work into the designs, let alone the template itself, and then it takes some time to assemble each box after scoring and gluing properly, and finally driving to the post office over and over again; hardly seems worth it for just one dollar per sale.
Believe me, I'm not the type of person to rip people off; I hate the fact that the guy over at GameReproductions.com charges as ridiculously as he does (I know the entire repro process, and it should definitely not cost that much) for cart reproductions, but the thing is I feel I deserve to make at least some margin of profit for this level of effort on my part.
If money didn't matter, I'd happily be giving these away for free.
Although, perhaps I can give away some freebies every now and then to promote my website; but I wouldn't dare do that here.
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True but I am a firm believer that if you do not own the images then you should not make a profit. I'm honestly not trying to sound aggressive but I don't care that you may or may not own the copyrighted arrangement. To me it all comes down to the artwork and who made it.
I wouldn't feel right about switching the logo around on Chrono Trigger artwork and making it into posters to resell. Just because I created a new arrangement doesn't make it mine (in my opinion of coarse). The artwork is Akira Toriyama and Square Enix's property. I couldn't ethically (or possibly legally) redistribute for a personal financial gain.
What we are about on this site is preserving the video game covers at absolutely no charge. We are more focused on the entire community of gamers over ourselves. I understand that making the images ready to print takes some time and you feel you should be paid for that time but that still doesn't sync with our philosophy here. I have easily spent over 1000 hours of my free time creating covers for our community and I don't feel the need to be financially reimbursed for time spent.
In my opinion making covers or box recreations should be more of a service rather than a business.
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So basically I'd be getting $1 for each sale. Given the fact that I put hours of work into the designs, let alone the template itself, and then it takes some time to assemble each box after scoring and gluing properly, and finally driving to the post office over and over again; hardly seems worth it for just one dollar per sale.
Lets just say that the average cover/box takes 1hr to complete on the computer.
- This takes me about 1ish starting from a raw image to completion.
You sell only 10 boxes and you have already made some money. Not to mention you could likely sell far more than 10 boxes.
- Assembly really doesn't take that long especially when you are doing multiple boxes at the same time.
- 5min max on each box
You will definitely not get rich or make a living but it would be enough for your time.
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Ehh .... perhaps i'm just a cheapass.
I just really think that videogame preservation should be as free as possible since we are preserving something we don't have the rights to redistribute.
(sorry for beating a dead horse by saying pretty much the same thing again)
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I don't see why everyone is getting agitated here. Ownaholic only asked for opinion on the quality of his work.
If he wants to charge $100.or $1000 for something he's designed and made himself - who cares. And if there are people prepared to pay that for it even better for him. Simple supply and demand. Nothing we buy costs that much to produce - there has to be profit in it or people go out of business.
Give him a break and stop perpetuating the advertising of these things for sale by just giving opinions on the quality of the covers.
Myself, I think the logo on the som2 box needs some work.
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If he wants to charge $100.or $1000 for something he's designed and made himself - who cares. And if there are people prepared to pay that for it even better for him. Simple supply and demand. Nothing we buy costs that much to produce - there has to be profit in it or people go out of business.
I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention of 'ripping on him' for his prices. He has the right to charge as he pleases, as it is very unlikely the game developers of the games he is making the boxes for would come down on him. I was just giving my incite as to what he should charge in my opinion. He said he didn't have a firm price so i was commenting on that part of what he said. I may have swirled things a bit off topic by focusing on that little part of what he wrote.
I'll get back on topic and examine / give some pointers about his images on my next post. :)
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Suggestions that would benefit your cover in my opinion ...
I will go pretty in depth and may be nitpicky but don't take it personal.
These are not requirements to make a good cover its just my opinion on what i would do if i were you.
The Template itself
- There is some color separation of the red SNES logo on the front and spine. There appears to be two different colors of red or a faint line running down the middle).
- Move all your text boundaries further away form the border of the box and the images on the back.
- The front gray snes logo/blinds seem to be darker than the rest of your template. I would suggest making them all the same color. Currently the front one will likely be too dark and unseeable when printed.
- Nintendo seal is too dark and gray. The seal should be more of a golden color if possible.
Tactics Ogre
- Move all your text boundaries further away form the border of the box and the images on the back.
- spread the images more apart from each other (make them smaller too). Most retail images on the back have a larger areas in between each image.
- the back text is pretty small. I know you want to get a lot of info back there but it will look drastically smaller compared to retail games side by side.
Secret of Mana
- Move all your text boundaries further away form the border of the box and the images on the back.
- SOM logo need to be redone. It looks like you pulled it from the ROM itself but it would greatly benefit from not being grainy/pixely.
- move the characters down a bit form the top and the logo up from the bottom. It will put more focus on the game name itself rather than the island. The logo is almost always spotlighted on each cover.
I could add more but i would just be super-nitpicking at that point ;) Hope this helps
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shenske - i wasn't aiming my comment directly at you, but in the direction the thread was heading. If he was making copies of officially released boxes and passingthem off as originals, i would be in the same mind as you - but as these aren't available, and clearly say repro on them, i don't have a problem with it (but shouldn't be advertised or linked from here, as thats not what we're about).
I completely agree with your observations on the actual art.
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I'm not being ill-hearted, I was only stating that you used poor word choice with "copyright" as you dont have the rights to have it copyrighted. I was laughing when I wrote that
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If he wants to charge $100.or $1000 for something he's designed and made himself - who cares. And if there are people prepared to pay that for it even better for him. Simple supply and demand. Nothing we buy costs that much to produce - there has to be profit in it or people go out of business.
I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention of 'ripping on him' for his prices.
He was stating that what even posting the word "Reproduction" does not entitle someone to pass it as their own. I can photoshop a picture of Mario and claim it as a reproduction and sell it for $0.05, but that doesn't mean I own the rights to sell that image/etc. We don't support the idea of selling covers for a profit. We are a collection of game enthusiasts on which we care to preserve video game cover art. Simple as that. It's completely free to do so, and we do not want our items sold. If you care to sell something that has been posted, whoopideedo, we can't stop you. Shenske was only stating that it is morally wrong to do so because you don't own the rights, and if someone does sue you for redistributing copyrighted material under illegal messures, it may become a problem for this website to continue production. Konami, Nintendo, Square-Enix... they may all feel that the source of all this "copyright infringement" is coming from a website such as ours.
I am only looking into the future. If you want to sell something, have at it. Please don't bring us into the mix as we don't want anything to do with it. If you are too goddamn greedy that you are unwilling to share your materials that you have created, go post things on vgboxart.com where no one can download it. Don't come to our forums and disrespect our rules here
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If he wants to charge $100.or $1000 for something he's designed and made himself - who cares. And if there are people prepared to pay that for it even better for him. Simple supply and demand. Nothing we buy costs that much to produce - there has to be profit in it or people go out of business.
I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention of 'ripping on him' for his prices.
He was stating that what even posting the word "Reproduction" does not entitle someone to pass it as their own. I can photoshop a picture of Mario and claim it as a reproduction and sell it for $0.05, but that doesn't mean I own the rights to sell that image/etc. We don't support the idea of selling covers for a profit. We are a collection of game enthusiasts on which we care to preserve video game cover art. Simple as that. It's completely free to do so, and we do not want our items sold. If you care to sell something that has been posted, whoopideedo, we can't stop you. Shenske was only stating that it is morally wrong to do so because you don't own the rights, and if someone does sue you for redistributing copyrighted material under illegal messures, it may become a problem for this website to continue production. Konami, Nintendo, Square-Enix... they may all feel that the source of all this "copyright infringement" is coming from a website such as ours.
I am only looking into the future. If you want to sell something, have at it. Please don't bring us into the mix as we don't want anything to do with it. If you are too goddamn greedy that you are unwilling to share your materials that you have created, go post things on vgboxart.com where no one can download it. Don't come to our forums and disrespect our rules here
Seriously? Did you even read my posts? Please don't quote me and use it as a spring board to a rant - and don't patronise me by telling me what WE are about!
Now can we please keep to the topic of only critiquing the actual art on this thread pleas?
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The art shouldnt be watermarked in "Copyright". My two cents
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Nothing that Shenske hasn't already said but watch your margins, everything is too mashed together at the moment and too close to the cutting edge. Give stuff a little space to breathe.
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Thanks a million to those of you who provided actual relevant feedback; it is much appreciated!
Also, I hope everyone had a very Happy New Year!